Gun Control - moved from E-cig thread

[JimL]

Unless you live in a vacuum you have heard about several vaping deaths and hundreds of people (mostly kids) with lung problems from vaping. Trump has said he is thinking about banning flavored vaping liquids to discourage teens from vaping.

Trump administration readies ban on flavored e-cigarettes amid outbreak of vaping-related deathshttps://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/11/trum...g-disease.html

So, is this a good thing or is it overreaching government nannying, like when NY wanted to ban sugary drinks (colas) to for the people's own good?

Your guns will be next!

[Teallaura]

Gun Crontrol - moved from E-cig thread

Your guns will be next!

Beto has just handed Trump one heck of a campaign issue - and probably a blue state or two.


I'm pro-gun control - the Dems have set it back 20 years!!!

[rogue06]

Beto has just handed Trump one heck of a campaign issue - and probably a blue state or two.


I'm pro-gun control - the Dems have set it back 20 years!!!

I wish someone would ask "Beto" which military uses AR-15s.

[Teallaura]

I wish someone would ask "Beto" which military uses AR-15s.

Dunno - not clear on why this matters?

And no, I don't agree with him - I just don't get this.

[JimL]

Beto has just handed Trump one heck of a campaign issue - and probably a blue state or two.


I'm pro-gun control - the Dems have set it back 20 years!!!

And so are the great majority of Americans,and they're against the sale of military style weapons as well. It's about time someone in the democratic party understands that and takes a moral stand. How can you be pro gun control and be against people owning weapons of mass destruction? Do you think people should have access to nuclear weapons, they are arms as well, or is that going to far?

[Teallaura]

And so are the great majority of Americans,and they're against the sale of military style weapons as well. It's about time someone in the democratic party understands that and takes a moral stand. How can you be pro gun control and be against people owning weapons of mass destruction? Do you think people should have access to nuclear weapons, they are arms as well, or is that going to far?

Jim, I respect standing on principle - but I admire effectively standing on principle. I don't respect abject stupidity in a presidential candidate.

What is going to happen is that gun proponents are going to be extremely reactive to any gun legislation. They will become active and go into overdrive to defeat things we might otherwise have agreed on. But now they know there really are abolitionists in the Democrat party - confirming their 'paranoia' as fact.

And yes, this will probably help the Republicans in 2020. That's a silver lining to me, but it will probably mean we leave open the few loopholes we could have closed.

[lilpixieofterror]

And so are the great majority of Americans,and they're against the sale of military style weapons as well. It's about time someone in the democratic party understands that and takes a moral stand. How can you be pro gun control and be against people owning weapons of mass destruction? Do you think people should have access to nuclear weapons, they are arms as well, or is that going to far?

An AR-15 is no different than the loads of wood/plastic/composite rifles sold today. They are not in the same league as a nuke, stop fear mongering.

[JimL]

Jim, I respect standing on principle - but I admire effectively standing on principle. I don't respect abject stupidity in a presidential candidate.

What is going to happen is that gun proponents are going to be extremely reactive to any gun legislation. They will become active and go into overdrive to defeat things we might otherwise have agreed on. But now they know there really are abolitionists in the Democrat party - confirming their 'paranoia' as fact.

And yes, this will probably help the Republicans in 2020. That's a silver lining to me, but it will probably mean we leave open the few loopholes we could have closed.

And why should anyone care what the gun proponents who support the sale and ownership of military style weapons of mass destruction think when the great majority of Americans, which includes many gun proponents, oppose them? How is that supposed to help Republicans in 2020? It's certainly not going to help Trump if he decides to go that route, though he probably will because the supporters of the sale and ownership of these weapons are a large portion of his wacky base.

[JimL]

An AR-15 is no different than the loads of wood/plastic/composite rifles sold today. They are not in the same league as a nuke, stop fear mongering.

They can kill a lot more people a lot faster than rifles meant for sport, lilpix. I didn't suggest they were the same as nukes, I asked where do you draw the line, and upon what grounds do you do so? How many people have to be killed, how many school children, babies, you know, the ones that live independently, outside of the womb, need a poor mentally ill person or deranged psychopath be able to kill with a weapon before you draw that line?

[lilpixieofterror]

They can kill a lot more people a lot faster than rifles meant for sport, lilpix. I didn't suggest they were the same as nukes, I asked where do you draw the line, and upon what grounds do you do so? How many people have to be killed, how many school children, babies, you know, the ones that live independently, outside of the womb, need a poor mentally ill person or deranged psychopath be able to kill with a weapon before you draw that line?

[Teallaura]

And why should anyone care what the gun proponents who support the sale and ownership of military style weapons of mass destruction think when the great majority of Americans, which includes many gun proponents, oppose them? How is that supposed to help Republicans in 2020? It's certainly not going to help Trump if he decides to go that route, though he probably will because the supporters of the sale and ownership of these weapons are a large portion of his wacky base.

Because they outnumber the 'Constitution be darned, steal their stuff' lunatics - and gun control advocates. Riling them up only guarantees they will win.

[Teallaura]

Lil, I grant I don't know a lot, but I'm pretty sure a semi-auto anything is more of a force multiplier than a .22 deer rifle. Also, 'tiny statistical reality' isn't a good defense for letting crazies have semi-automatic weapons.

Incidently, I'm not in favor of the ban - these are just preaching to the choir arguments (well, and you missed Jim's point on the first one).

[KingsGambit]

I'm not a fan of the general tactic of requiring anybody proposing any solutions in the gun violence debate to have an encyclopedic knowledge of guns. It's gatekeeping, pure and simple. I'm pro-life even though I couldn't describe how abortions occur in any sort of detail and don't see a problem with that.

[Terraceth]

I'm not a fan of the general tactic of requiring anybody proposing any solutions in the gun violence debate to have an encyclopedic knowledge of guns. It's gatekeeping, pure and simple. I'm pro-life even though I couldn't describe how abortions occur in any sort of detail and don't see a problem with that.

I don't think this is a very valid analogy. In the abortion debate, the methodology of abortions is not particularly important, because those opposed to it are opposed to it--period. If the abortion debate were centered around the methods of abortion, with groups arguing certain methods are wrong but others are okay, the analogy might hold, but that is hardly the case for abortion (except, perhaps, for partial birth abortions).

In the gun debate, knowledge about guns is kind of important to know because it gives you the knowledge as to how dangerous different guns are so you can have your suggestions for gun restrictions make sense and be consistent. I've seen a good number of people comment that the proposals for gun control seem to frequently be not based on how dangerous guns are but on how scary they happen to look, for example. Knowledge about gun specifics would therefore avoid that problem.

[JimL]

Because they outnumber the 'Constitution be darned, steal their stuff' lunatics - and gun control advocates. Riling them up only guarantees they will win.

Actually you are wrong, the great majority of Americans including republicans gun enthusiats are in favor of gun control including the banning of military style weapons that were meant for war. It's true that there is a large contingent of Trumpsters and the NRA lobbyist who care more about owning and profiteering from such weapons than they do about the slaughter of innocent people, including children, but the great majority of people, again, including gun owners, want those weapons of mass destruction off the market and off the streets.