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Thread: Gun Control - moved from E-cig thread

  1. #11
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    And why should anyone care what the gun proponents who support the sale and ownership of military style weapons of mass destruction think when the great majority of Americans, which includes many gun proponents, oppose them? How is that supposed to help Republicans in 2020? It's certainly not going to help Trump if he decides to go that route, though he probably will because the supporters of the sale and ownership of these weapons are a large portion of his wacky base.
    Because they outnumber the 'Constitution be darned, steal their stuff' lunatics - and gun control advocates. Riling them up only guarantees they will win.

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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    No they canít. This is your ignorance speaking. The features of the AR-15 (semi auto, accurate, magazine fed) are used in modern sporting rifles and have been for decades. You have no clue what youíre talking about and your dad attempts at emotionalism, without facts, shows you have no clue. Murders are lower today than they were 30 years ago and odds of being involved in a mass shooting remains a tiny statical reality.
    Lil, I grant I don't know a lot, but I'm pretty sure a semi-auto anything is more of a force multiplier than a .22 deer rifle. Also, 'tiny statistical reality' isn't a good defense for letting crazies have semi-automatic weapons.

    Incidently, I'm not in favor of the ban - these are just preaching to the choir arguments (well, and you missed Jim's point on the first one).

  3. #13
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of the general tactic of requiring anybody proposing any solutions in the gun violence debate to have an encyclopedic knowledge of guns. It's gatekeeping, pure and simple. I'm pro-life even though I couldn't describe how abortions occur in any sort of detail and don't see a problem with that.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  4. Amen Teallaura, Roy amen'd this post.
  5. #14
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I'm not a fan of the general tactic of requiring anybody proposing any solutions in the gun violence debate to have an encyclopedic knowledge of guns. It's gatekeeping, pure and simple. I'm pro-life even though I couldn't describe how abortions occur in any sort of detail and don't see a problem with that.
    I don't think this is a very valid analogy. In the abortion debate, the methodology of abortions is not particularly important, because those opposed to it are opposed to it--period. If the abortion debate were centered around the methods of abortion, with groups arguing certain methods are wrong but others are okay, the analogy might hold, but that is hardly the case for abortion (except, perhaps, for partial birth abortions).

    In the gun debate, knowledge about guns is kind of important to know because it gives you the knowledge as to how dangerous different guns are so you can have your suggestions for gun restrictions make sense and be consistent. I've seen a good number of people comment that the proposals for gun control seem to frequently be not based on how dangerous guns are but on how scary they happen to look, for example. Knowledge about gun specifics would therefore avoid that problem.

  6. #15
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Because they outnumber the 'Constitution be darned, steal their stuff' lunatics - and gun control advocates. Riling them up only guarantees they will win.
    Actually you are wrong, the great majority of Americans including republicans gun enthusiats are in favor of gun control including the banning of military style weapons that were meant for war. It's true that there is a large contingent of Trumpsters and the NRA lobbyist who care more about owning and profiteering from such weapons than they do about the slaughter of innocent people, including children, but the great majority of people, again, including gun owners, want those weapons of mass destruction off the market and off the streets.

  7. #16
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Lil, I grant I don't know a lot, but I'm pretty sure a semi-auto anything is more of a force multiplier than a .22 deer rifle. Also, 'tiny statistical reality' isn't a good defense for letting crazies have semi-automatic weapons.
    If you shoot a deer with a .22, youíre going to have a pretty angry deer after you. Even the .223 round common in AR-15 is often considered too small and people that use them in deer hunting donít use standard .223 rounds. AR-15ís and their style are used, but only relatively small animals in the standard chamber. Second, thereís no easy way to keep the crazies away from guns. Most people suffering from a mental illness are not dangerous and punishing people who have done no crime causes legal issues. The best we can manage is the statical reality that we have a better chance of dying in a car wreck or from medic malpractice, yet do we worry about that, despite the greater chances that the next one can be our last car ride or doctor visit.

    Incidentally, I'm not in favor of the ban - these are just preaching to the choir arguments (well, and you missed Jim's point on the first one).
    Jim is talking about things he doesnít understand.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  8. #17
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Actually you are wrong, the great majority of Americans including republicans gun enthusiats are in favor of gun control including the banning of military style weapons that were meant for war. It's true that there is a large contingent of Trumpsters and the NRA lobbyist who care more about owning and profiteering from such weapons than they do about the slaughter of innocent people, including children, but the great majority of people, again, including gun owners, want those weapons of mass destruction off the market and off the streets.
    Most people are stupid. Name one military that uses the AR-15, the scary thing is people like you believe these lies and vote for people that flat out lie to you.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  9. #18
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    If you shoot a deer with a .22, youíre going to have a pretty angry deer after you. Even the .223 round common in AR-15 is often considered too small and people that use them in deer hunting donít use standard .223 rounds. AR-15ís and their style are used, but only relatively small animals in the standard chamber. Second, thereís no easy way to keep the crazies away from guns. Most people suffering from a mental illness are not dangerous and punishing people who have done no crime causes legal issues. The best we can manage is the statical reality that we have a better chance of dying in a car wreck or from medic malpractice, yet do we worry about that, despite the greater chances that the next one can be our last car ride or doctor visit.



    Jim is talking about things he doesnít understand.
    And you're talking BS. You don't need a military style semiautomatic weapon to shoot at deer, and when shot the deer isn't coming after you, if he's still able he's running for his life. You're obviously the one with no clue.

  10. #19
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Most people are stupid. Name one military that uses the AR-15, the scary thing is people like you believe these lies and vote for people that flat out lie to you.
    The only one that brought up the AR-15 in particular was you, Lipix.

  11. #20
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I'm not a fan of the general tactic of requiring anybody proposing any solutions in the gun violence debate to have an encyclopedic knowledge of guns. It's gatekeeping, pure and simple. I'm pro-life even though I couldn't describe how abortions occur in any sort of detail and don't see a problem with that.
    Proposing common sense laws and not knowing the basic details is a problem.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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