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Thread: Why I Voted For Trump...

  1. #71
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Laws are challenged in the Supreme Court, not by the Supreme Court.
    EXCELLENT clarification, Jimmy! And that challenge has to be brought by a party who actually has legal standing before the court.

    If SCOTUS invalidates a challenced law as unconstitutional, then it's invalidated, kaput!
    Actually, SCOTUS can strike down certain aspects of a law.

    Congress can revise and re-enact a new version of the law if they so choose, because that's what they do, but the original law is no longer law.
    OR, particular aspects or sections of a law are no longer law.

    See, Roy? Even your Jimmy disputes your notion that SCOTUS can change laws.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  2. #72
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    You are talking about leftists courts who did not follow the Constitution. Take School prayer - Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. A School district is not Congress, nor does the School district made law.
    Public schools are government schools and the government is seperate from religion. Anyone who wants to is free to pray wherever and whenever they want to, but a public school is not a religious intitution.

  3. #73
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Public schools are government schools and the government is seperate from religion. Anyone who wants to is free to pray wherever and whenever they want to, but a public school is not a religious intitution.
    Nope Jim, the Constitution says that Congress shall make no law. So is the school district Congress? Did it make a law? You are the one ignoring what thee text actually says. And BTW - we had voluntary prayer when I was in School - no ones hair caught on fire.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  4. #74
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    He was assuring them that the government would have nothing to do with religion, thus building a wall between church and state. I bolded the pertinent part just for you.
    That was his opinion to the Danbury Baptist Association in response to their query about a "state Church", Jimmy. They constituted in 1790 out of concern that their RELIGIOUS LIBERTY was threatened by the rule of law of the Calvinist Protestants, who had founded the colony. That was the purpose of the letter to Jefferson. Consequently, in 1818, the state did away with its "official religion" - the government could no longer exercise control over the religious liberties of its citizenry.

    From Politico....

    On Feb. 10, 1947, the U.S. Supreme Court, citing Jefferson’s views, defined the reach of “separation of church and state” under the First Amendment. Justice Hugo Black, writing for a 5-4 majority in Everson v. Board of Education, held that “neither a state nor the federal government can set up a church,” adding:

    “Neither [entity] can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion.

    “No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion.”

    Neither a state nor the federal government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect “a wall of separation between Church and State.’”


    See, Jimmy? The issue was about keeping the State out of Church business.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  5. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  6. #75
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    You still didn't answer to the substance of Jims post. That Trumps request for Russian help was just sarcasm is a subjective belief which of course is the stance his supporters would adopt, but regardless, that doesn't speak to the gist of his post. Trump is an authoritarian who is abusing his office, diregarding the Constitution and undermining democracy here and around the world. He's Putin's boy!
    I actually backed up my "subjective belief" with facts. You know, those things that you rarely provide to substantiate your claims and get all upset when others do provide them. Yeah, those things.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  7. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  8. #76
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    Death of the humor center of the brain is one of the most distinctive and deleterious effects of TDS.
    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Cognitive dissonance is right up there with it.
    Indeed.

    So know that you recognize your problem (or at least one of them), what steps are you going to take in order to treat it?

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  9. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  10. #77
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Nope Jim, the Constitution says that Congress shall make no law. So is the school district Congress? Did it make a law? You are the one ignoring what thee text actually says. And BTW - we had voluntary prayer when I was in School - no ones hair caught on fire.
    It was a fairly easy decision for the SCOTUS to make if you ask me. They cited the Establishment Clause of the first Amendment ruling that public schools are government institutions which would make school led prayer unconstitutional. It would violate the Establishment Clause. I know, you disagree that it violates the Establishment Clause, and many people, including myself disagree with you, and, most importantly, so did the SCOTUS when they examined the matter. And they didn't ban praying in school, you can pray in school all you want, you can pray at home before going to school, you can pray before getting out of moms car when she drops you off, you can pray whenever you want, so why is it so important for the school to be involved? I think we all know the answer to that question!

  11. #78
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    That was his opinion to the Danbury Baptist Association in response to their query about a "state Church", Jimmy. They constituted in 1790 out of concern that their RELIGIOUS LIBERTY was threatened by the rule of law of the Calvinist Protestants, who had founded the colony. That was the purpose of the letter to Jefferson. Consequently, in 1818, the state did away with its "official religion" - the government could no longer exercise control over the religious liberties of its citizenry.

    From Politico....

    On Feb. 10, 1947, the U.S. Supreme Court, citing Jefferson’s views, defined the reach of “separation of church and state” under the First Amendment. Justice Hugo Black, writing for a 5-4 majority in Everson v. Board of Education, held that “neither a state nor the federal government can set up a church,” adding:

    “Neither [entity] can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion.

    “No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion.”

    Neither a state nor the federal government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect “a wall of separation between Church and State.’”


    See, Jimmy? The issue was about keeping the State out of Church business.
    Read the last line of the ruling, CP. "a wall of separation between church, (i.e. any church) and the state. That means that the Establishment Clause, was by the founders, meant to separate religion from the government.

  12. #79
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    It was a fairly easy decision for the SCOTUS to make if you ask me. They cited the Establishment Clause of the first Amendment ruling that public schools are government institutions which would make school led prayer unconstitutional. It would violate the Establishment Clause. I know, you disagree that it violates the Establishment Clause, and many people, including myself disagree with you, and, most importantly, so did the SCOTUS when they examined the matter. And they didn't ban praying in school, you can pray in school all you want, you can pray at home before going to school, you can pray before getting out of moms car when she drops you off, you can pray whenever you want, so why is it so important for the school to be involved? I think we all know the answer to that question!
    Good points about prayer, Jim.

    The kicker is when the school goes overboard to stop student-led prayer or bible clubs or the like. Quite honestly, I no longer trust the public schools to oversee "prayer in the schools", as this opens the door wide to Muslim led prayer or "Jimmy the Goat God" prayer.

    On the Bible clubs --- our local schools had slammed the door shut on ANY kind of Bible Club meetings or prayer groups or anything else, until they were successfully sued for discrimination -- they have to be allowed the same rights as the science club, or the math club, or the chess club...
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  13. Amen RumTumTugger, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  14. #80
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Read the last line of the ruling, CP. "a wall of separation between church, (i.e. any church) and the state. That means that the Establishment Clause, was by the founders, meant to separate religion from the government.
    Actually, Jimmy, you can't just choose which sentence fragment you wish to spotlight -- this is why CONTEXT is so important. The ENTIRE opinion discusses State interfering with Church.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  15. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.

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