Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Why I Voted For Trump...
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Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostNo, not like that. The Tennessee one explicitly refers to God.
But rights don't come the Constitution, they come from God. As the Founders said. And what Tennessee is doing is not unusual:
Alabama
That all men are equally free and independent; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Arizona
We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution.
California
We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure and perpetuate its blessings, do establish this Constitution.
Connecticut
The People of Connecticut acknowledging with gratitude, the good providence of God, in having permitted them to enjoy a free government.
Delaware
Through Divine goodness, all men have by nature the rights of worshiping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences, of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring and protecting reputation and property, and in general of obtaining objects suitable to their condition...
Florida
We, the people of the State of Florida, being grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty
Idaho
We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom
There are more in the link...
https://www.usconstitution.net/states_god.htmlAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostBut rights don't come the Constitution, they come from God. As the Founders said.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYeah, I guess you would know better than the women themselves, seer.both sides agree that (a) abortion is consistently associated with elevated rates of mental illness compared to women without a history of abortion; (b) the abortion experience directly contributes to mental health problems for at least some women
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Roy View PostI would. Luckily it's not hard to find one. You could have done it yourself if you were inclined.
No, not like that. The Tennessee one explicitly refers to God.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYou mean like.... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable RightsWhere do you think they got that?
(And, in cause you're unaware, that's directly from the Declaration of Independence, and is a critical part of the founding of our nation)Last edited by Cow Poke; 09-20-2019, 01:12 PM.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Roy View PostOften implies not always.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostThat's probably true. If so -- if that really is the original intent, or the "originalist" reading -- then things like the First Amendment and the "no religious test" clause in the main body of the Constitution really don't preclude, e.g., outlawing the practice of Islam, or prohibiting Muslims from serving in government.
I don't think I'm comfortable with that.
"I tend to think no establishment of religion referred more to the idea of what would today call a christian denomination. That is, they would not want the us government establishing the FCC, or the presbyterians as the official faith of the USA,"
I'm confused as to how you reach that conclusion from his statement. Oxmixmudd is referring to the Establishment Clause here. It is true that the Establishment Clause does not prevent outlawing the practice of Islam, but I don't think anyone sensible would claim that the Establishment Clause prevents the government from outlawing a religion--it's the Free Exercise Clause that does that. Similarly, the Establishment Clause is separate from the No Religious Text Clause. Something being allowed by one clause doesn't mean another clause can't outlaw it. It's like saying "the Seventeenth Amendment doesn't outlaw slavery, so slavery is legal!"
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostThat's probably true. If so -- if that really is the original intent, or the "originalist" reading -- then things like the First Amendment and the "no religious test" clause in the main body of the Constitution really don't preclude, e.g., outlawing the practice of Islam, or prohibiting Muslims from serving in government.
I don't think I'm comfortable with that.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd, as usual, you will Tassmanipulate that into something it clearly was not. Context is important, little one.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThe context is clear, that there was to be a separation between church and state. It wasn't fully applied at the time because there were mainly only differing christian sects as has been mentioned, just as the "all men are created equal" clause in the DoI wasn't fully applied because slaves were not considered fully human. And again, James Madison himself, the main architect of the Constitution, warned against the mingling of government and religion even though, to some extent, like slavery itself, it continued to occur at the time.
For that matter, the issue of whether slaves counted as humans was irrelevant to the question of the constitutionality of slavery. In fact, to this day, slavery is constitutional under certain circumstances. Don't believe me? Read the Thirteenth Amendment: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThe context is clear, that there was to be a separation between church and state. It wasn't fully applied at the time because there were mainly only differing christian sects as has been mentioned, just as the "all men are created equal" clause in the DoI wasn't fully applied because slaves were not considered fully human. And again, James Madison himself, the main architect of the Constitution, warned against the mingling of government and religion even though, to some extent, like slavery itself, it continued to occur at the time.
As Terraceth points out, it wasn't law - it was a DECLARATION which appealed to the Providence of God for protection, because they knew that the very declaration was an act of war, and they could lose EVERYTHING....
The CONTEXT was that Tassman brought up the concept of "separation between church and state", which came from the letter Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptist Association in January, 1802.
The concern of the Danbury Baptist Association was that there would be a "state religion", like they had just rejected in their war for independence.
Jefferson was assuring them there would not be a "state religion" -
If you want to understand the meaning of the answer, you really need to look at the QUESTION that is being answered.
From the Danbury Baptist Association's letter....
But, sir, our constitution of government is not specific. Our ancient charter together with the law made coincident therewith, were adopted as the basis of our government, at the time of our revolution; and such had been our laws and usages, and such still are; that religion is considered as the first object of legislation; and therefore what religious privileges we enjoy (as a minor part of the state) we enjoy as favors granted, and not as inalienable rights; and these favors we receive at the expense of such degrading acknowledgements as are inconsistent with the rights of freemen. It is not to be wondered at therefore; if those who seek after power and gain under the pretense of government and religion should reproach their fellow men‐‐should reproach their order magistrate, as a enemy of religion, law, and good order, because he will not, dare not, assume the prerogatives of Jehovah and make laws to govern the kingdom of Christ.
Their concern was that laws would be made to govern the kingdom of Christ. Jefferson was answering that concern.
THAT is the context.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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