Why I Voted For Trump...

[rogue06]

Got a cite for that? That's simply a liberal talking point, Jim

source

The pro-abortion crowd only cares about keeping abortion legal and if anything wants to increase abortions:

Sad to say the left has been celebrating abortions for awhile now

Unfortunately there are those who see abortions as being something to celebrate and are unhappy when abortion numbers drop and happy when they go up.

From a few short past posts:

Celebrating abortions:

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Among certain elements it is virtually becoming a sacrament.

Earlier this year Planned Parenthood was able to gather 20 religious leaders to blessWhat to Get a Friend Post-Abortion" guide including this

Happy about increased abortions:

Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains, located in Las Vegas, Nevada (Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's turf) gave its Aurua, Colorado abortion clinic an award for increasing the number of babies killed in abortions.

Source: Planned Parenthood Gives Clinic Award for 'Exceeding Abortion Visits' of Previous Year

Proving once and for all that Planned Parenthood's business is abortion, Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains gave its Aurora abortion clinic an award certificate for "exceeding abortion visits [in the] first half of FY12 compared to the first half of FY13."

Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains is the 2nd largest Planned Parenthood facility in the U.S.

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The picture of the award was snapped by a former worker who saw it posted on a bulletin board in Denver. The board displays awards satellite clinics have earned.

The award challenged the Planned Parenthood worker's thinking, since it showed that clinics were given abortion "quotas" to meet, and that this particular clinic had "exceeded" expectations and received an award for doing so.

From a blog post by Abby Johnson, former Planned Parenthood director turned pro-life advocate:

Ever since I left Planned Parenthood, I have been talking about the abortion quotas that are established inside abortion facilities. Many abortion supporters refused to believe it, citing that surely Planned Parenthood wants abortion to be safe, legal and RARE. If they want something to be RARE, they certainly wouldn't have quotas, right?

Planned Parenthood had a net revenue of $1.21 billion last year, and received $540.6 million in U.S. taxpayer funding.


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So much for wanting to make abortions rare but safe and legal when you award clinics for increasing the number of abortions

Unhappy when abortion rates drop:

For years the pro-abortion crowd has told everyone that they want to make abortion "safe, legal and rare." For instance back in 2008 Hillary Clinton proclaimed at a campaign event that she thought abortion should be "safe, legal and rare, and by rare I mean rare." But the reality of the situation is that some really are not interested in the rare part and see a decrease in abortions as being a bad thing.

Case in point, in a tweet earlier this week Cosmopolitan magazine, a long time major advocate for abortions, lamented an increase of babies born in Texas after that state defunded organizations, such as Planned Parenthood, that provide abortions.

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The link in the tweet goes to a Cosmo story about a study conducted by the Texas Policy Evaluation Project at University of Texas Austin which found a 1.9% "increase in the birthing rate in counties that once had state-funded Planned Parenthood clinics." And as can be seen by the accompanying sad-face emoji in the tweet Cosmo thinks that people having more babies and less abortions is a negative result.

So much for "safe, legal and rare" -- or at least for the last part. But then what can you expect from a magazine that last year started a campaign trying to get women to say how great abortions are (#ShoutYourAbortion). After all, why would you want to make something that is so positive a rare thing?

[Terraceth]

Abortion is safer and rarer due to it's being legal.

Safer? Probably. Rarer? Hardly.

[Cow Poke]

Safer? Probably. Rarer? Hardly.

It's certainly not safer for the baby. Every successful abortion results in a dead body.

[rogue06]

Safer? Probably. Rarer? Hardly.

From yet another old post:

I've already commented on the "making them rare" aspect of the "safe, rare and legal" mantra voiced by abortion advocates so let's look at the other two parts.

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Even though abortion has been legal for 45 years a number of abortion centers have conditions strikingly similar the worst of the horror stories circulated about "back-alley" abortions. Today in the era when making abortions legal was also supposed to make them safe the facilities, like the ones in New York City, are inspected less than tanning salons and "Illinois abortion clinics hadn't been inspected for up to 15 years before the Gosnell case broke, an Associated Press investigation found."^[1][2] the public has become more concerned about the conditions in these places. Similar things were taking place at centers runs by Nareshkumar "Naresh" Patel, Brian Finkel, Robert Rho, James Pendergraft IV and others. Abortion centers are being investigated for botched abortions or hazardous facilities in Alabama, New Mexico, Minnesota, Maryland, Colorado and Florida. There may be more, since abortion record-keeping is abysmal.

According to the Philadelphia Inquirer

Source: Problems with N.J. late-term abortion business similar to Pa.'s

For five months last year, New Jersey regulators received complaints that abortion doctor Steven Brigham, 54, was running a secret, cash-only, late-term abortion business using a risky interstate scheme - one for which he was disciplined in the 1990s.

Just as in the Gosnell case, regulators took no public action against Brigham - until a police raid forced them to.

...

None of Brigham's six New Jersey clinics is licensed to do surgery, so, rather than lose business, he evaded the rules, prosecutors say. He initiated late-term abortions in Voorhees; the next day, he led car caravans of patients, in labor, to Elkton, Md., for surgery.

...

Elizabeth Barnes, director of Cherry Hill Women's Center, a South Jersey abortion clinic, said she wrote to New Jersey's medical licensing board in June 2009 detailing her suspicions that Brigham was starting third-trimester abortions in Voorhees and finishing them in a clandestine clinic, probably in Maryland.

In response, Barnes said, an investigator talked to her, off and on, for months. Yet no official action was taken against Brigham.

Barnes' suspicions should have rung bells. In the 1990s, Brigham did late-term abortions that straddled Voorhees and New York City.

In 1994, New York authorities took his license in that state for botching two abortions, one begun in Voorhees. They called him "undertrained," with "submarginal abilities" and "not the slightest recognition of his deficiencies." New Jersey prosecuted Brigham for those same cases, plus four more. But Brigham's appeals ultimately reached an administrative judge who found him "sincere" and "credible," and reinstated his license.

...

On Aug. 17, police raided the Elkton clinic - a storefront operation with no sign, that had opened about a year earlier - but could not find her medical records. They did, however, find 35 late-term fetal bodies and parts, none with records.

...

Although Elkton is closed, three American Women's Services clinics are open in Maryland. So are six in New Jersey, two in Virginia (where he has never had a license), and two in Pennsylvania.



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An investigation into New Jersey abortion center injuries revealed that they are not being inspected, as the law required. The state has four centers that perform late-term abortions and 3 of the 4 had gone 5 years or even longer without a state health inspection.

Here in Georgia Channel 2 WSB (owned by the same company that runs the proudly liberal Atlanta Journal-Constitution newspaper) Lori Geary, who recently stepped down as a political reporter and was also an anchor at CNN's Headline News, conducted an investigation finding that inspections of all five abortion centers in the state found numerous health violations including "Unsterilized instruments, dirty linens and expired medications"

Source: Records: Georgia's abortion clinics face numerous inspection violations

Geary got the inspection records for all five clinics three weeks after filing the open records request. Some of them were pages long, listing numerous violations. Those violations were for items like expired medications and medical instruments, including speculums. Others listed unsterilized equipment, sterilized and non-sterile supplies stored in the same room with a traffic cone, the vent in a biohazard room taped off with cardboard, soiled linens in surgical rooms and stirrups wrapped in duct tape. One violation was for iodine swabs to prevent wound infections that had expired 10 years ago.

"If I was a patient at that clinic I would be horrified to know that maybe the tools they were using were not clean," said Galloway.

Planned Parenthood runs only one of the five surgical clinics. It's located in Augusta and had 23 violations in 2011, and paid a $1,400 fine.

In a very candid interview, the organization's CEO told Geary there was a change in leadership at the clinic, and a corrective action plan was submitted. Still, state records show, inspectors didn't visit the clinic until two years later, in March 2013.



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And Planned Parenthood actually sued the state of Indiana trying to block a law that required yearly inspections. The law also required they keep and turn over information to the Department of Health detailing "abortion complications" that arose. PP complained both requirements "impose unique and burdensome obligations" on them.

Pro-abortion activists maintain such oversight of abortion centers is "medically unnecessary" and "politically motivated" but even after Gosnell inspectors continued to find serious problems in other facilities in that state. For example, a recent "determined that the facility was not in compliance with the requirements of the Pennsylvania Department of Health's Rules and Regulations for Ambulatory Care Facilities" and among other things

Observation of the facility on August 12, 2016, revealed the facility was very warm and did not have operating air conditioning. According to Accuweather, the actual high temperature on August 12, 2016, was 96 degrees Fahrenheit. The facility did not have a thermometer inside and could not provide the room air temperature.

An interview conducted on August 12, 2016, at 10:00 AM with EMP1 confirmed the facility did not report the loss of air conditioning, as an infrastructure failure. EMP1 further revealed that the air conditioning broke around June 17-20, 2016. EMP1 confirmed that a service technician was onsite on June 23, 2016, and July 28, 2016. The air conditioner had not been fixed as of August 12, 2016. EMP1 further stated that "I guess I should have reported it."

groundbreaking study of abortion in Chile published in 2012 is the first in-depth analysis of a large time series, year by year, of maternal deaths and their determinants and was led by Dr. Elard Koch^[3]

Source: A ground-breaking abortion study from Chile

These data suggest that over time, restrictive laws may have a restraining effect on the practice of abortion and promote its decrease. In fact, Chile exhibits today one of the lowest abortion-related maternal deaths in the world, with a 92.3% decrease since 1989 and a 99.1% accumulated decrease over 50 years.

Second, from the perspective of human life, especially if a developing country is looking to simultaneously protect the life of the mother and the unborn child, a plausible hypothesis after the Chilean study is that abortion restriction may be effective when is combined with adequately-implemented public policies to increase educational levels of women and to improve access to maternal health facilities. A restrictive law may discourage practice, which is suggested by the decrease of hospitalizations due to clandestine abortions estimated in Chile.



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So while pro-abortion proponents repeatedly insist that abortion regulations or bans would result in a back-alley abortion surge and giving rise to an increase in deaths and serious injuries of women, the facts simply put indicate that this is not the case.

Finally, one should bear in mind that if Roe were to be overturned it is highly doubtful that this would suddenly lead to abortions being outlawed nationwide. It would almost certainly throw it back to the states to decide on a state-by-state basis. It is inconceivable that states like California or New York would choose to make them illegal. The same could be said about other "blue" states (including those that voted for Trump in 2016) and likely for a number of "red" ones as well.

And even in states that do opt to make them illegal, it would likely be like how it was in Ireland before they legalized abortion two months ago, where those wanting one simply took a day trip over to Great Britain in order to get one. The same with Poland which still has tight restrictions on abortion. As the Guardian noted matter-of-factly, "Polish women seeking abortions typically go to Germany or other neighbouring countries or order abortion pills online."








1. Illinois Abortion Clinics Inspected an Average of Once Every 9 Years with 40% of licensed centers going between 14 and 17 years without inspections. Moreover, the state health department doesn't regulate Planned Parenthood but rather under Illinois law, they are regulated by the Illinois Department of Professional and Financial Regulation

2. And, according to the Grand Jury report investigating him



In cases where the baby was born alive after Gosnell tried to abort it he stuck scissors into the back of their necks to cut their spinal cords (which he called "ensuring fetal demise)," and at least once making a joke of it.

In the end Gosnell was convicted of first degree murder in the deaths of 3 of infants and involuntary manslaughter in the death of Karnamaya Mongar, a patient. He was also convicted of 21 felony counts of illegal late-term abortion, and 211 counts of violating the 24-hour informed consent law.

3.

[Tassman]

You can't even get your facts straight. By "the time of the ruling", Criswell had already been out of office for 3 years.

The issue is what Criswell said not his term of office as a two-term elected president of the Southern Baptist Convention. And regardless he remained a senior Baptist pastor throughout.

Criswell was merely reflecting the attitude common at the time and in fact throughout most of Judeo/Christian history, namely that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person.

Further, Criswell preached that you were lost and going to Hell without receiving Christ as Savior. You embrace that, too, yes?

This is just standard Baptist theology, which he is entitled to preach. Just as what Criswell had to say about abortion vis-a-vis personhood was the standard Baptist position of the day. The virulent anti-abortion stance and hysterical language about has only been around for the last 50 years.

[Tassman]

When you say "not usually referred to", you're excluding a very high number of actual biologists.

HUMAN LIFE is overwhelmingly recognized by BIOLOGISTS as beginning at conception - disciples of the culture of death ignore science and come up with convoluted excuses to continue the slaughter.

The pro-abortion crowd only cares about keeping abortion legal and if anything wants to increase abortions:

Of course. Nothing like a good abortion to brighten up one's day.

[Cow Poke]

EGGzackly - ignore the science and hide behind 'creative terminology'.

[Cow Poke]

The issue is what Criswell said not his term of office as a two-term elected president of the Southern Baptist Convention. And regardless he remained a senior Baptist pastor throughout.

You can't even keep your facts straight - you had clearly stated that he was President of the SBC at the time of the RvW decision. Wrong. You repeatedly demonstrate your complete and total ignorance of all things Southern Baptist.

[rogue06]

Of course. Nothing like a good abortion to brighten up one's day.

Consider how many want to celebrate them...

Look at post #751 for examples of such celebrations along with being happy when the number of abortions increase and being upset when the number decreases.

Then there was the jubilant celebration in New York when they made it legal to abort babies for any reason right up to the moment of birth.

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And Gov. Cuomo even ordered bridges and government buildings be decorated with pink lights to celebrate allowing unborn babies to be killed for any reason whatsoever right up to the moment of birth.

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Please note how Cuomo himself characterizes it

Once again the left puts the lie to their claim that they don't like abortion and that they want to make it as rare as possible. They rejoice in their iniquity.


ETA: Another one to add to the mix.

Michelle Wolf, the host of Netflix's "The Break with Michelle Wolf" (where she recently asked her audience the question "Are You Sort Of Hoping We Don't Get Peace With North Korea So You Wouldn't Have To Give Trump Credit?" and 71% said "yes") devoted a portion of her 4th of July episode celebrating abortions (calling it a "Salute to Abortion") shouting "God bless abortions and God bless America." She talked at length about how women have the unique ability to create life and then cheered on the idea that they should terminate those lives.

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When I brought some of this up before Adrift noted "Lena Dunham's podcast last year [2016] when she claimed that she wished she could have an abortion as a stand of solidarity for women's rights."

[rogue06]

But they do refer to them as their baby.

Ask any pregnant woman what's in there while pointing to their "baby bump" and I'll bet nearly all of them will say their baby and not fetus or clump of cells.

[JimL]

Got a cite for that? That's simply a liberal talking point, Jim

source

No, actually, if you look at the data, it is not only a talking point, as if there is something wrong with talking points per se, but the talking point, happens to be true.

http://www.guttmacher.org/sites/defa...s/gr040101.pdf

As you can see, abortion is completely illegal in Latin America and yet abortion rates are estimated to be twice that of the U.S. and the mortality rate ranges from 6 to 20 times greater than that in the U.S.

[JimL]

Safer? Probably. Rarer? Hardly.

Safer, and rarer in the U.S according to comparisons with countries where abortion is illegal. Abortions seem to correlate with unplanned pregnancies, not with legality.

[Cow Poke]

But they do refer to them as their baby.

Ask any pregnant woman what's in there while pointing to their "baby bump" and I'll bet nearly all of them will say their baby and not fetus or clump of cells.

Just like any other effort to murder masses of people, the first and most important step is to dehumanize them.

It is a HUMAN BEING inside the womb, and Tass has even agreed to that. In order to justify killing that human, the culture of death has to declare them "not a person".

[Cow Poke]

No, actually, if you look at the data, it is not only a talking point, as if there is something wrong with talking points per se, but the talking point, happens to be true.

http://www.guttmacher.org/sites/defa...s/gr040101.pdf

As you can see, abortion is completely illegal in Latin America and yet abortion rates are estimated to be twice that of the U.S. and the mortality rate ranges from 6 to 20 times greater than that in the U.S.

Did you actually read that PDF, Jim?

First of all, it's from 20 years ago, and is simply a pleading that abortion CAN be legal, safe and rare.

It doesn't change the fact that Planned Parenthood has no plans whatsoever to make abortion more rare -- they CELEBRATE numbers of abortions, as Rogue pointed out.

[Cow Poke]

That's quite an admission - so ending that pregnancy would be terminating a human life? I concur!

within the first trimester.

While I'm sure this is apparently another glaring error on your part, you are implying that any abortion after week 13 is killing a "viable individual".