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Thread: Why I Voted For Trump...

  1. #621
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Actually the Liberals you cited agree with the decision,
    No, they agree with the outcome. The actual decision is cited as seriously flawed.

    in that it's the womens choice to make, they just don't agree with the reasoning given by the Court.
    They agree that it was a horrible decision not based on legitimate judicial process.

    And that's just some Liberals,
    Yes, the honest ones.

    there are plenty I'm sure who were in agreement with it.
    The outcome, sure - the process, no.

    Tassman loves to cite "because it's the law of the land" -- but it's ONLY "the law" because of a terrible abuse of judicial process. IF Roe v Wade were to be overturned, it would be on the basis of its flawed construction, not because of any opinion polls.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  2. #622
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    It's a great system - unfortunately in the hands of terribly flawed people in an incredibly politically divided nation.
    This sounds a lot like what defenders of communism say: "It works, they just put the wrong people in charge of it!"

    Honestly, I think a lot of problems would be solved if it required 2/3 of the Supreme Court to strike down a law as unconstitutional rather than a simple majority. It wouldn't fully fix things (there were certainly very erroneous decisions striking down a law that had more than 2/3 on board), but it would at least protect a bit against it.

    (oh, and before, "but Roe v. Wade was a 7-2 decision and would have passed"--maybe, but it would have been effectively overturned subsequently)

    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Actually the Liberals you cited agree with the decision, in that it's the womens choice to make, they just don't agree with the reasoning given by the Court.
    A few of them did, yes--but most of them were critical of both decision and result. And even "right conclusion, wrong reasoning" is being critical of the decision itself. And I question how many of them were fully in agreement with even the decision itself. Ginsburg may have agreed with "right to an abortion" but asserted that the majority went too far with it, for example.

    And that's just some Liberals, there are plenty I'm sure who were in agreement with it.
    Gee, I wonder why someone might be in favor of a decision that politically supports their preferred policies, regardless of the reasoning was good or not...

  3. Amen Cow Poke, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  4. #623
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    That has ZERO to do with whether Roe v Wade was actually a proper decision.
    Of course, it was a proper decision. Roe v Wade was made by a duly appointed body 'properly' fulfilling its role to adjudicate on the Constitutional issue brought before it. The fact that you dislike the decision is neither here nor there.

    And SCOTUS should not make decisions based on opinion polls.
    SCOTUS did NOT make a decision “based on opinion polls”, what a ludicrous suggestion.

    Nevertheless, its landmark legal ruling was widely supported at the time, even by your lot e.g. W. A. Criswell, the Southern Baptist Convention’s former president and pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas was very pleased at the ruling. No thought of ‘improper decisions’ back then.

    What a jackass. I never said any such thing.
    Come now. Your entire argument has been based on “saving innocent babies in the womb” NOT about perceived flawed decisions by SCOTUS.

    I'm merely pointing out that, if they were honest, even liberals would agree that Roe v Wade was a bad decision.
    No. The majority of scholars and the population “honestly” approve of Roe v Wade and will fight to retain the pro-choice position it protects. You, of course, will cherry-pick those that agree with your religion-based opinion and denigrate the rest as "dishonest".
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  5. #624
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post

    Gee, I wonder why someone might be in favor of a decision that politically supports their preferred policies, regardless of the reasoning was good or not...
    For much the same reason that someone might be opposed to a decision that politically undermines their preferred policies and religious ideology, by claiming that the decision was flawed.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  6. #625
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    No, they agree with the outcome. The actual decision is cited as seriously flawed.
    The decision is the outcome, even if the underlining reasoning was flawed.


    They agree that it was a horrible decision not based on legitimate judicial process.
    Nope, if they agree with the outcome, then they agree with the decision, even if they don't agree with the reasons given for it.


    Yes, the honest ones.
    Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them dishonest.


    The outcome, sure - the process, no.
    I have no idea why you are bringing up process, the process hasn't changed. I think it's the reasoning behind the decision that you have a problem with.
    Tassman loves to cite "because it's the law of the land" -- but it's ONLY "the law" because of a terrible abuse of judicial process. IF Roe v Wade were to be overturned, it would be on the basis of its flawed construction, not because of any opinion polls.
    Well, yeah, they would have to show not only why the underlining reasoning in the case by the previous SCOTUS was flawed, but they would have also to show that the decision/outcome itself was wrong.

  7. #626
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Of course, it was a proper decision. Roe v Wade was made by a duly appointed body 'properly' fulfilling its role to adjudicate on the Constitutional issue brought before it.
    This known as an opinion. I bet you have a belly button, too.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  8. #627
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    The decision is the outcome, even if the underlining reasoning was flawed.
    Court cases get overturned all the time on the basis of flawed reasoning, Jim.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  9. #628
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Court cases get overturned all the time on the basis of flawed reasoning, Jim.
    *cough* Plessy vs Ferguson
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  10. #629
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    *cough* Plessy vs Ferguson
    EGGzackly -- I think the liberals want so badly for Roe v Wade to stand that they'll argue anything, ignore any facts, or maybe they're just plain ignorant of the law.

    And to be clear, I'm not even pushing for RvW to be overturned, or holding out any serious hope that it will --- just pointing out that the weakness of RvW is that the decision itself was seriously flawed, and that in itself makes it vulnerable. And pretty much any honest liberal who knows anything about the law knows that and would admit it.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  11. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  12. #630
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    EGGzackly -- I think the liberals want so badly for Roe v Wade to stand that they'll argue anything, ignore any facts, or maybe they're just plain ignorant of the law.

    And to be clear, I'm not even pushing for RvW to be overturned, or holding out any serious hope that it will --- just pointing out that the weakness of RvW is that the decision itself was seriously flawed, and that in itself makes it vulnerable. And pretty much any honest liberal who knows anything about the law knows that and would admit it.
    If we ignored the obvious moral implications, of abortion, the court should have kicked the issue to congress or the states.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  13. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.

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