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Thread: Why I Voted For Trump...

  1. #741
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    It doesn't matter how one defines it, there can be no justification for the current US trend in abortion circles for fighting for the 'right' to do abortions for any reason through the end of pregnancy. But neither side wants science to get involved, because science can't justify calling a fetus at one day of gestation a 'person', any more than it can it justify calling one at 5 months or later (current age of viability outside the womb) NOT a person. And the reality is, any scientific definition of when a fetus transitions scientifically from something not quite a person to a person will be way too early in the process to make any American advocate for abortion comfortable.

    Jim
    Person is a legal term, not a scientific one so....
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  2. Amen Cow Poke, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  3. #742
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    ...But neither side wants science to get involved, because science can't justify calling a fetus at one day of gestation a 'person'...
    That's exactly what I meant by ignoring the hard sciences like biology and going after a philosophical or legal term instead.

    The science would also include the remarkable imaging where we can actually see the baby in the womb that looks far more like a human being than "a clump of cells".

    One of the most powerful tools we have in our pregnancy center to encourage women not to abort is the scientific equipment where they can actually see the human life inside them.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  4. Amen lilpixieofterror amen'd this post.
  5. #743
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Person is a legal term, not a scientific one so....
    "Person" is the term to which the culture of death has had to retreat because they can no longer argue "human life".
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  6. Amen lilpixieofterror, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  7. #744
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    So when we lost one of our children, in utero, my husband not I shouldn’t have been heartbroken about the death of our child and shouldn’t of had a funeral? You truly are sick.
    I’m sure the pro abortion crowd will be here any minute now to tell me this was irrational... any minute...
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  8. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  9. #745
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    "Person" is the term to which the culture of death has had to retreat because they can no longer argue "human life".
    They are pretty inconsistent at that. Holding baby showers, gender reveals, and grieving stillborns/miscarriages would be irrational if birth is the moment we should care about. They wouldn’t say a word about my story or yours because they know it would make them look like heartless monsters, but it’s where their logic leads.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  10. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  11. #746
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    I’m sure the pro abortion crowd will be here any minute now to tell me this was irrational... any minute...
    It isn't a pro-abortion crowd, it's a pro choice crowd, meaning that it is no one elses business what any woman decides to do with her own body. You don't have to agree with her, but you are not her, it's her body, her life, and her business. It's true that the fetus could become a human person at some point during the pregnancy, and that time has been determined by the court. To argue, as many do, that it becomes a human person at conception is ridiculous.

  12. #747
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    It isn't a pro-abortion crowd, it's a pro choice crow....
    But you remember when the Democrats were touting the "safe, legal and rare" claims?

    It's come a long since then, and I believe the case could easily be made that it is, indeed, a PRO-abortion crowd, Jim

    How the abortion debate moved away from “safe, legal, and rare”

    Wen broke with other abortion rights advocates some time ago. When she was removed as Planned Parenthood’s president in July, she said in a statement that, “I believe that the best way to protect abortion care is to be clear that it is not a political issue but a health care one.” Some said the group ousted her because it was looking for “a more aggressive political leader” on abortion rights, while others said she had management issues.

    Since she left Planned Parenthood, Wen has argued that the best way to build public support for abortion rights is to seek common ground with people who may be uncomfortable with the procedure, but want it to remain legal. She wrote in a New York Times op-ed shortly after her departure that while leading the group, “I reached out to people who wrestle with abortion’s moral complexities, but who will speak out against government interference in personal medical decisions.”

    “We need to stop treating those whose views differ from our own with scorn and suspicion, and instead work together to safeguard our health, our rights and our future,” she concluded.

    And after Tuesday’s debate, Wen made clear that she saw the “safe, legal, and rare” framing as a way to reach out to people with different views on the issue. “Pro-choice & progressive movements will lose unless we allow more people to join who do not agree 100% with the most extreme ideology,” she tweeted. (Wen declined, through a representative, to be interviewed for this story.)


    Wen was fired because she wasn't pro-abortion ENOUGH.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  13. #748
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    But you remember when the Democrats were touting the "safe, legal and rare" claims?

    It's come a long since then, and I believe the case could easily be made that it is, indeed, a PRO-abortion crowd, Jim

    How the abortion debate moved away from “safe, legal, and rare”

    Wen broke with other abortion rights advocates some time ago. When she was removed as Planned Parenthood’s president in July, she said in a statement that, “I believe that the best way to protect abortion care is to be clear that it is not a political issue but a health care one.” Some said the group ousted her because it was looking for “a more aggressive political leader” on abortion rights, while others said she had management issues.

    Since she left Planned Parenthood, Wen has argued that the best way to build public support for abortion rights is to seek common ground with people who may be uncomfortable with the procedure, but want it to remain legal. She wrote in a New York Times op-ed shortly after her departure that while leading the group, “I reached out to people who wrestle with abortion’s moral complexities, but who will speak out against government interference in personal medical decisions.”

    “We need to stop treating those whose views differ from our own with scorn and suspicion, and instead work together to safeguard our health, our rights and our future,” she concluded.

    And after Tuesday’s debate, Wen made clear that she saw the “safe, legal, and rare” framing as a way to reach out to people with different views on the issue. “Pro-choice & progressive movements will lose unless we allow more people to join who do not agree 100% with the most extreme ideology,” she tweeted. (Wen declined, through a representative, to be interviewed for this story.)


    Wen was fired because she wasn't pro-abortion ENOUGH.
    Abortion is safer and rarer due to it's being legal.

  14. #749
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Abortion is safer and rarer due to it's being legal.
    Got a cite for that? That's simply a liberal talking point, Jim

    False Claim #1: Legalizing abortion makes it rarer and safe. “In limiting access to abortion, lawmakers may unwittingly force women towards these unsafe options. By contrast, where legal and more easily accessible abortion rates actually go down.”

    The argument that legalizing abortion makes it safer, and also makes abortion rates go down, is gravely flawed. First and foremost, even if it were true, the argument contradicts a basic universal moral principle that the ends never justify the means. The authors are talking about legalizing the taking of innocent lives in order to… make the taking of innocent lives safer and less frequent. It just doesn’t add up. Laws exist to protect the most fundamental of rights, the first of which is the right to life.

    The other major problem is that the evidence to support the claim that abortions are more dangerous and more frequent when they are illegal is questionable at best. The authors link to an NBC story, which in turn references a Guttmacher study that actually states, “Abortion rates are similar in countries where abortion is highly restricted and where it is broadly legal. The abortion rate is 37 per 1,000 women in countries that prohibit abortion altogether or allow it only to save a woman’s life, and 34 per 1,000 in countries that allow abortion without restriction as to reason—a difference that is not significant.” In other words, even according to the Guttmacher Institute, the evidence does not support the authors’ claim that the rates go down with legalization. According to their own data, there is no statistical difference. The “rare” part of “safe, legal, and rare” is, and always has been, a complete myth.

    source
    Last edited by Cow Poke; 10-22-2019 at 06:23 PM.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  15. #750
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    It isn't a pro-abortion crowd, it's a pro choice crowd,
    And here's another reason why that's a flat out lie. Note, I'm not calling YOU a liar - you're simply repeating what you evidently believe to be true.

    When a person comes to our PRO-LIFE pregnancy center, they are encouraged to CHOOSE LIFE. At last count, over 93% do. We unashamedly encourage LIFE, because we are PRO-LIFE. Apologetically.

    On the other hand, when somebody goes to a supposedly "pro-choice" clinic, are they really given a choice? Are they presented with both the pros and cons of abortion? And the vast majority of persons who go to a "pro-choice" clinic end up with abortions. Why? Because Planned Parenthood, the largest abortion provider in the world, is not really interested in "choice", but in doing the abortion.

    Planned Parenthood is, indeed, PRO-ABORTION.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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