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Thread: Why I Voted For Trump...

  1. #251
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    By exposing the lies... at our pregnancy center, every day women are astounded at how much the baby has developed because they can see the baby using modern technology. MOST of them will choose not to abort when they see what (who) it is they are killing.
    Both sides lie. Pro-choicers might use pictures of zygotes and pretend they are several weeks old, but pro-lifers have been known to claim pictures of late-term foetuses represent much earlier states.

    IIRC one pro-life group even pretended a sculpted doll was a foetus. Science exposed that lie too. (Found it)
    Actually, in my book, they're based on the principle of the sanctity of human life.
    I'd say the difference between that and foetal rights is nitpicky.
    It's not a game - in any sense of the word.
    That was an analogy.
    Actually, no. As JimL correctly pointed out, a case has to specifically be brought to them, usually after battling in lower courts. They don't determine "which laws should be upheld" -- they determine which cases presented to them are unconstitutional.
    They determine whether laws in cases brought to them (or chosen by them) are unconstitutional. Not the cases themselves.*
    That's a whole lot of word juggling -- they still don't "change the law" - they simply evaluate if it - or part of it - is unconstitutional.
    You're doing a large amount of word juggling yourself. For one, you're still using "the law(s)" to refer only to a single law and not recognising that it can mean the body of laws as a whole.

    So, here's my concession -- in the sense that a particular tenant or point or condition of a law is ruled unconstitutional, it has the effect of changing that law.
    ...and thereby changing the law (i.e. the body of laws currently in force). Which was the original point that everyone misunderstood and wrongly contested.
    No. The "conservative" judge is, by nature, originalist. Most of us conservatives simply want the judges to "stick to the constitution" and the law - not be activists.
    That's dependent on which clause in the constitution you're talking about. There are many conservatives who would prefer that judges not "stick to the constitution" and rule that laws which require schools to hold prayer sessions or teach creationism are constitutional. Many of them sit on state education boards.
    Progressive activist judges need to be removed/replaced.
    Better to say that any activist judge should be replaced, whether progressive, regressive, pro-religion, anti-religion, pro-abortion, anti-abortion, pro- or anti- death penalty, pro- or anti- slavery, pro- or anti- gun/cannabis/PR-statehood/climate change/tobacco/gene modification/gambling/union/anything-else.
    It's the stated strategy.

    1) Vote for Trump, because he will ...
    2) ... appoint conservative judges, who will
    3) ... uphold laws against abortion.
    Stated by whom? Certainly not by me!
    By Sparko, in post #3.

    *In those cases which involve judicial review, rather than the majority of cases, in which the court's task is to determine whether laws have been broken.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

    Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.

  2. #252
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I would not consider that all that telling. In the time, I don't believe it would not have been acceptable for a leader of the country to express publicly anything other than a more traditional Christian view of God. Indeed, he was often accused of being an infidel.

    Since he expresses directly he did not accept divine revelation, you can't call him Christian or Jewish in his faith.
    I agree with that. Like I said, probably some form of Unitarianism.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  3. #253
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Well, regardless, Jeffereson wasn't a christian, seer. He didn't believe in miracles, divine revelation, that Jesus was raised from the dead. Basically, he didn't believe in the bible. So what would you call him?
    Right Jim, I never claimed that he was a Christian. I would call him a Unitarian - they had a variety of views from classic Christianity to classic Deism.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  4. #254
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    No offense taken. The meaning of the word religion in the timeframe in which the words were written was inclusive of things like Islam or Buddhism or Hindu only in a secondary sense. These were not seen as 'true religion' in that time. Monotheism that recognized the Judeo-Christian God as the The only God was what constituted 'true religion', the rest was essentially paganism and not compatible with the principles founding this country. We have veered very far from that and I believe many of the present day interpretations of the relationship between our government and religion as they understood the term are in fact in violation of what the founding fathers intended. They did not want a state church as there was in England. They wanted to continue as the country began as a place where people of varying interpretations of the Christian Bible could exercise their understanding of that text without fear of state interference. And they were inclusive enough in their language, based on how the words were understood and used in that day, to allow people like Jefferson some comfort they would not be able to be oppressed. They never intended for the state to effectively embrace the concept that tends more to a 'freedom FROM religion', where religious (i.e. Judeo Christian based religious) thought and expression was banished from the government.

    Jim
    But, even if that were so, the principle of the Establishment Clause would still hold with respect to other religions as they are now recognised whether the Founders were fully aware or accepting of other religions at that time or not. Besides that, like I said earlier, James Madison himself, the principle author of the Constitution, warned against government sponsered religion which is what leading christian prayer in school and christian monuments in public places and buildings amounts to..
    The Founders may not have understood or recognized african americans as being human beings at the time either,they didn't, but they understood and recognized the principle that all men are created equal with the same rights and so the government follows that principle today with respect to black people even though they didn't at that time. The Constitution is about the principles writ within it, not the traditions played out at the time. I believe that is how the SCOTUS interprets it as well, and rightly so.
    Last edited by JimL; 09-19-2019 at 07:29 AM.

  5. #255
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    After all, there is no attempt by the abortionist to educate her to the down side of abortion.
    That is simply not true.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

    Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.

  6. #256
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    If there is no God and it is just evolution and survival of the fittest then there is no "all are equal" - by definition. The weakest are dominated by the powerful. Slavery is a perfect example of this.
    If the Bible is true and some are among God's chosen people then there is no "all are equal" - by definition. Different rules apply to others. Slavery is a perfect example of this.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

    Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.

  7. Amen JimL amen'd this post.
  8. #257
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    like I said earlier, James Madison himself, the principle author of the Constitution, warned against government sponsered religion which is what leading christian prayer in school and christian monuments in public places and buildings.
    Where did Madison have a problem with christian prayer in school and christian monuments in public places and buildings? Didn't he support the Christian Chaplain service?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  9. #258
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    That is simply not true.
    Argument by weblink is against the rules --- you got something to say? Say it, and you can use a cite to back it up. You know better, Roy.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  10. #259
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    If the Bible is true and some are among God's chosen people then there is no "all are equal" - by definition. Different rules apply to others. Slavery is a perfect example of this.
    God's "chosen people" were those through whom the Messiah would come. Messiah has come, and there is now neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free; all are equal in Christ.

    Perhaps you shouldn't play word games - but that's just about your only schtick here.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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  11. Amen Cow Poke, Mountain Man, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  12. #260
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    The point isn't that the founding fathers were not christians, or believers in a god, whether theist or deist, the point is that the government/state would not sanction any particular belief system.
    No - the point is that they didn't OPPOSE any belief system, and would not choose one as an official state religion.

    Besides that, that you would want them to simply means you want a theocratic government.
    How can you be such a moron and still type? Nobody is WANTING a "state religion" -- but the "wall of separation" to which Jefferson referred was in direct response to government establishing an official religion -- it was NOT about keeping religion from influencing government.

    Thank the god I don't believe in, the founding fathers were a lot wiser than you lot.
    That the God I do believe in that morons like you weren't involved in the process.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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