Originally posted by RumTumTugger
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
Why I Voted For Trump...
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostLike I said to CP, voluntary prayer is not banned.
You can pray wherever you want, but being forced to pray in class is not voluntary.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostTass there is no dispute - the text is PERFECTLY clear - even you can understand it - CONGRESS shall make NO LAW. And again - tell me what exactly did Jefferson mean? You seem to know.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Tassman View PostThere is obviouslyhttps://oxfordre.com/americanhistory...199329175-e-29
Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another
So how is voluntary teacher led prayer a law? And you quoted Hugo Black, I asked what did Jefferson mean in the context of the letter he wrote?
But let's quote an earlier Supreme Court Justice from your link:
but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects, and to prevent any national ecclesiastical establishment which should give to a hierarchy the exclusive patronage of the national government.30
For Story and others, the government could advance Christianity generally to the exclusion of other religionsAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostThat's correct, because the law is already implied in the clause. They don't have to make a law against christian led prayer in public schools when the fact that christian led prayer in public schools would be the government sponsering a religion.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostCP already knew that.
If a student is banned from saying a prayer or referencing God during a high school commencement speech, that's a violation of the "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" clause.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostNo Jim, that is completely false. That idea is not in the Amendment - this is NOT Congress passing a LAW. And you can't just wish it was so.
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostIf Congress is forbid to pass a law respecting the establishment of religion, then the government, obviously, can not sponser a religion which is what it would be doing if it allowed a specific religions prayers be led in public schools, or specific religions monuments etc, being displayed in public buildings. That would be respecting the establishment of a religion. So, they don't need to pass a law, the law is implied in the clause.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostNo Jim, it is not obvious, nor has it ever been. The very men you are speaking of who wrote the clause specifically supported the Christian religion. Had days of national thanksgiving referencing Christ - not one of these men would have had a problem with school prayer or religions monuments. After all they knew our very rights came from one source, and one source alone - GOD...
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostAnd that of course is not what we're talking about. We're talking about the students being led in school prayer, not their referencing god in a speech.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostNo Jim, it is not obvious, nor has it ever been. The very men you are speaking of who wrote the clause specifically supported the Christian religion. Had days of national thanksgiving referencing Christ - not one of these men would have had a problem with school prayer or religions monuments. After all they knew our very rights came from one source, and one source alone - GOD...
Comment
-
Nonsense Tass, I never said this was a Christian nation, but I can demonstrate that Christianity had a profound influence - from John Locke on. And I did not only reference Continental Congress I referenced (from your linkThomas Jefferson Second Inaugural Address
I shall now enter on the duties to which my fellow citizens have again called me, and shall proceed in the spirit of those principles which they have approved. I fear not that any motives of interest may lead me astray; I am sensible of no passion which could seduce me knowingly from the path of justice; but the weakness of human nature, and the limits of my own understanding, will produce errors of judgment sometimes injurious to your interests. I shall need, therefore, all the indulgence I have heretofore experienced -- the want of it will certainly not lessen with increasing years. I shall need, too, the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our forefathers, as Israel of old, from their native land, and planted them in a country flowing with all the necessaries and comforts of life; who has covered our infancy with his providence, and our riper years with his wisdom and power; and to whose goodness I ask you to join with me in supplications, that he will so enlighten the minds of your servants, guide their councils, and prosper their measures, that whatsoever they do, shall result in your good, and shall secure to you the peace, friendship, and approbation of all nations.
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/jefinau2.aspLast edited by seer; 09-27-2019, 05:27 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostTrump/Putin supprters shouldn't be calling others commies.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Thomas Paine had, as far as I can tell, nothing to do with the drafting of the Constitution of the United States.
Citation needed.
And, as I have pointed out repeatedly, Thomas Jefferson was off in France during the writing and ratification of the Constitution. Isn't it interesting that it's the least qualified of the "Founding Fathers" to weigh in on the Constitution that you keep citing over and over in order to try to show support for your constitutional interpretation?
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 03:46 PM
|
12 responses
67 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Today, 08:18 AM
|
||
Started by Ronson, Yesterday, 01:52 PM
|
2 responses
34 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Today, 07:45 AM
|
||
Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 09:08 AM
|
6 responses
59 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by RumTumTugger
Yesterday, 10:30 AM
|
||
Started by CivilDiscourse, Yesterday, 07:44 AM
|
0 responses
22 views
0 likes
|
Last Post Yesterday, 07:44 AM | ||
Started by seer, Yesterday, 07:04 AM
|
51 responses
233 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Sparko
Today, 08:56 AM
|
Comment