Calling all Catholics.

[robrecht]

Can you help me out with the language here? Are they saying that those who were born into Protestant communities essentially don't know better, and thus have the right to be called "Christian", but those who were born into the Catholic Church, but who abandoned it, and then became Protestants....don't have the right to be called "Christian"? It doesn't say as much, but is that the correct reading between the lines?

No, I don't think that is at all intended. In the larger context, they are saying that both Catholics and Protestants who were involved in the creation of the schism are both at fault, not just the Protestants. Catholics are acknowledging that they are also at fault for the separation. But those who are born later bear no responsibility for the sin of schism.

[37818]

Oh, right, thanks for reminding me. I vaguely recall something about that. I seem to recall that some even claim to take their name from a core group of the followers of John the Baptist, or something like that.

That claim is a modern excuse to call themselves baptist. Historically has no bases that I know of. Only that there was always a church separate from Rome and Orthodox split. See also the Concise History of Baptists by Orchard.

[Rushing Jaws]

What convinces you that the Catholic Church is the original church founded by Jesus? Being raised Catholic? Being a convert to the Catholic Church?

## Speaking as a convert:
1. The good things are of the kind one might expect
2. The bad stuff in particular is of the kind one might expect.

A Christian Church should bring forth fruits of holiness - the CC does. Case in point: Blessed Chiara Badano (1971-90). I mention her because she is very recent, and because teenage Saints are somewhat unusual, unless they are martyrs - she was not. She is also a model for bone cancer sufferers.

If the CC is Divine, the sins and scandals of the last 1900 years are not surprising. Only a Church that has the capacity for raising Saints of radiant holiness could produce some of the people who, fairly or not, are notorious for unholiness. That is one of the things I like best about the CC - it can accommodate some really horrible people; that means it has room for me. Which is in turn a reminder that one must not presume to judge others - today's alcoholic or murderer may in God's good time be recognised as a Saint. Being Catholic can be painful, but it is never dull. A great part of the attraction for me was the fact of the Saints. They are so varied, in so many ways. Their variety is for me one of the surest indications that the Church really is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic in time and space.

Jesus "taught with authority/power" -and the CC is not shy of making the very same claim. If it is the Church of Christ, it should do His works, by His authority. He claimed to pardon sin - it makes the very same claim. The accusations against it are often those made against Him. Blasphemy, driving out evil with the help of evil, being called accursed, being called demonic or satanic, being called the Antichrist, being called an enemy of religion or a deceiver, are reproaches made against both Him & it in one form or another.

None of these considerations is coercive, but put together I find them, and others, very powerful. But as for conviction, reason is far too feeble to give that. If a Christian religious commitment is to be made, only something as hardwearing as faith will do. And faith is fruitless without love. The giving of conviction is ultimately a mystery of God's grace.