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Thread: Gun Control - moved from E-cig thread

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    tWebber
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    Gun Control - moved from E-cig thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Unless you live in a vacuum you have heard about several vaping deaths and hundreds of people (mostly kids) with lung problems from vaping. Trump has said he is thinking about banning flavored vaping liquids to discourage teens from vaping.


    Trump administration readies ban on flavored e-cigarettes amid outbreak of vaping-related deaths

    The Trump administration is preparing to ban flavored e-cigarettes as federal health officials call for restrictions to combat an outbreak of a mysterious lung disease that has sickened hundreds and killed at least six people, U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar told reporters Wednesday.

    The Food and Drug Administration is currently finalizing its guidance to remove all non-tobacco flavors of e-cigarettes, including mint and menthol, from the market within 30 days. Companies might be able to reintroduce their flavors at a later date, so long as they submit a formal application and receive approval from the FDA.

    Vaping companies such as Juul have been criticized for hooking children on e-cigarettes with flavors such as mango and creme. The surge in underage vaping, which U.S. health officials have labeled as an “epidemic,” is one of the reasons why they plan to ban them — at least until the FDA can thoroughly review their safety, Azar said after meeting with President Donald Trump at the White House on the issue.

    “The Trump Administration is making it clear that we intend to clear the market of flavored e-cigarettes to reverse the deeply concerning epidemic of youth e-cigarette use that is impacting children, families, schools and communities,” Azar said in a statement. “We will not stand idly by as these products become an on-ramp to combustible cigarettes or nicotine addiction for a generation of youth.”

    It could take the FDA several weeks to develop the guidelines, Azar told reporters outside the White House with acting FDA Commissioner Ned Sharpless.

    Shares of Altria, which owns a 35% stake in e-cigarette company Juul, fell by less than 1%, while competitors PMI Group, Japan Tobacco, British American Tobacco and Imperial Brands all rose by between 1% and 3% in midday trading.

    A Juul spokesman told CNBC on Wednesday, “We strongly agree with the need for aggressive category-wide action on flavored products. We will fully comply with the final FDA policy when effective.”

    Azar said they want to keep tobacco-flavored e-cigarettes on the market for adults who may be using them to quit smoking. The FDA has embraced e-cigarettes as a less harmful way for smokers to satisfy their nicotine addiction than smoking cigarettes. Skyrocketing numbers of minors started using the products, forcing the FDA to reverse course.

    “If we find that children start surging into tobacco-flavored e-cigarettes or if we find marketing practices that target children and try to attract them into tobacco-flavored e-cigarettes, we will engage in enforcement actions there also,” he told reporters.

    The effort to ban flavored e-cigarettes has started picking up momentum. Michigan, San Francisco, and Boulder, Colorado, have banned flavored e-cigarettes. Michael Bloomberg, the billionaire and former New York mayor, pledged $160 million to help enact similar restrictions around the country.

    The FDA was supposed to start reviewing e-cigarettes, a relatively new market, last summer until former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb pushed back the review until 2022. The proposal outlined Wednesday essentially moves the FDA’s timeline to review flavors up to this year. All companies must submit applications in May 2020 per a federal court judge’s ruling issued in July.

    Preliminary data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s annual survey of teens showed more than a quarter of high school students used e-cigarettes within the past 30 days, with the “overwhelming majority” saying they vaped fruit and menthol or mint flavors, HHS said in a press release.

    The FDA is in the process of banning menthol cigarettes.

    Regulators have blamed the teen vaping “epidemic” on one e-cigarette manufacturer in particular, Juul. The San Francisco-based company makes a sleek device and flavors including mango, creme and fruit. Its cartridges pack a powerful punch, with one pod delivering as much nicotine as a pack of cigarettes. Former White House spokesman Josh Raffel joined Juul’s communications team last year.

    Gottlieb labeled teen vaping an “epidemic” almost exactly a year ago. Under Gottlieb, the FDA moved to limit sales of fruity flavors to age-restricted stores, such as vape shops. Lawmakers and public health groups have urged the agency to do more, with Minority Whip Dick Durbin last week telling Sharpless to take “decisive action” or else resign.

    “Finally, the FDA is doing its job,” Durbin said in a statement Wednesday.

    American Vaping Association President Gregory Conley criticized the planned ban, saying in a statement it would “remove life-changing options from the market.”

    Wednesday’s announcement comes as members of Congress increasingly pressure the administration to rein in the e-cigarette industry.

    The CDC is investigating more than 450 cases of lung disease officials suspect were caused by vaping.

    Some officials have honed in on a vitamin E oil that’s been added to some THC vaping products as a possible cause. Regardless, the outbreak has fueled calls to restrict the e-cigarette industry amid what regulators are calling an “epidemic” of teen vaping.

    Trump called on the FDA to get to the bottom of the outbreak.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/11/trum...g-disease.html


    So, is this a good thing or is it overreaching government nannying, like when NY wanted to ban sugary drinks (colas) to for the people's own good?
    Your guns will be next!

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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Gun Crontrol - moved from E-cig thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Your guns will be next!
    Beto has just handed Trump one heck of a campaign issue - and probably a blue state or two.


    I'm pro-gun control - the Dems have set it back 20 years!!!

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Beto has just handed Trump one heck of a campaign issue - and probably a blue state or two.


    I'm pro-gun control - the Dems have set it back 20 years!!!
    I wish someone would ask "Beto" which military uses AR-15s.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    I wish someone would ask "Beto" which military uses AR-15s.
    Dunno - not clear on why this matters?

    And no, I don't agree with him - I just don't get this.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Beto has just handed Trump one heck of a campaign issue - and probably a blue state or two.


    I'm pro-gun control - the Dems have set it back 20 years!!!
    And so are the great majority of Americans,and they're against the sale of military style weapons as well. It's about time someone in the democratic party understands that and takes a moral stand. How can you be pro gun control and be against people owning weapons of mass destruction? Do you think people should have access to nuclear weapons, they are arms as well, or is that going to far?
    Last edited by JimL; 09-15-2019 at 09:04 AM.

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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    And so are the great majority of Americans,and they're against the sale of military style weapons as well. It's about time someone in the democratic party understands that and takes a moral stand. How can you be pro gun control and be against people owning weapons of mass destruction? Do you think people should have access to nuclear weapons, they are arms as well, or is that going to far?
    Jim, I respect standing on principle - but I admire effectively standing on principle. I don't respect abject stupidity in a presidential candidate.

    What is going to happen is that gun proponents are going to be extremely reactive to any gun legislation. They will become active and go into overdrive to defeat things we might otherwise have agreed on. But now they know there really are abolitionists in the Democrat party - confirming their 'paranoia' as fact.

    And yes, this will probably help the Republicans in 2020. That's a silver lining to me, but it will probably mean we leave open the few loopholes we could have closed.

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    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    And so are the great majority of Americans,and they're against the sale of military style weapons as well. It's about time someone in the democratic party understands that and takes a moral stand. How can you be pro gun control and be against people owning weapons of mass destruction? Do you think people should have access to nuclear weapons, they are arms as well, or is that going to far?
    An AR-15 is no different than the loads of wood/plastic/composite rifles sold today. They are not in the same league as a nuke, stop fear mongering.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Jim, I respect standing on principle - but I admire effectively standing on principle. I don't respect abject stupidity in a presidential candidate.

    What is going to happen is that gun proponents are going to be extremely reactive to any gun legislation. They will become active and go into overdrive to defeat things we might otherwise have agreed on. But now they know there really are abolitionists in the Democrat party - confirming their 'paranoia' as fact.

    And yes, this will probably help the Republicans in 2020. That's a silver lining to me, but it will probably mean we leave open the few loopholes we could have closed.
    And why should anyone care what the gun proponents who support the sale and ownership of military style weapons of mass destruction think when the great majority of Americans, which includes many gun proponents, oppose them? How is that supposed to help Republicans in 2020? It's certainly not going to help Trump if he decides to go that route, though he probably will because the supporters of the sale and ownership of these weapons are a large portion of his wacky base.
    Last edited by JimL; 09-15-2019 at 04:16 PM.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    An AR-15 is no different than the loads of wood/plastic/composite rifles sold today. They are not in the same league as a nuke, stop fear mongering.
    They can kill a lot more people a lot faster than rifles meant for sport, lilpix. I didn't suggest they were the same as nukes, I asked where do you draw the line, and upon what grounds do you do so? How many people have to be killed, how many school children, babies, you know, the ones that live independently, outside of the womb, need a poor mentally ill person or deranged psychopath be able to kill with a weapon before you draw that line?

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    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    They can kill a lot more people a lot faster than rifles meant for sport, lilpix. I didn't suggest they were the same as nukes, I asked where do you draw the line, and upon what grounds do you do so? How many people have to be killed, how many school children, babies, you know, the ones that live independently, outside of the womb, need a poor mentally ill person or deranged psychopath be able to kill with a weapon before you draw that line?
    No they can’t. This is your ignorance speaking. The features of the AR-15 (semi auto, accurate, magazine fed) are used in modern sporting rifles and have been for decades. You have no clue what you’re talking about and your dad attempts at emotionalism, without facts, shows you have no clue. Murders are lower today than they were 30 years ago and odds of being involved in a mass shooting remains a tiny statical reality.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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