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Thread: Gun Control - moved from E-cig thread

  1. #41
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    From what I hear the AR15 is not much different than the AK47 so why shouldn't AR15's be banned as well?
    They are a lot different. AK47s are machine guns. As are M16s. They are both illegal to own without a federal permit. So they are already banned. AR15s and AK47 STYLE rifles are only made to LOOK like military weapons. They function like any hunting rifle. They are semi-auto like most guns today are. One trigger pull shoots one bullet.

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  3. #42
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Stop right there. Hunting was not a part of the point - you are arguing over an example but still not addressing the point.

    Go back, read what I actually wrote and then address the bleeping point - or quit bothering me with this nonsense.
    You are all off the point. The point is E-Cigartette baning. Not guns.

  4. #43
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I'm not a fan of the general tactic of requiring anybody proposing any solutions in the gun violence debate to have an encyclopedic knowledge of guns. It's gatekeeping, pure and simple. I'm pro-life even though I couldn't describe how abortions occur in any sort of detail and don't see a problem with that.
    Well, when it ends up that the ignorant person is trying to ban or allow something based on their lack of knowledge, or incorrect knowledge it is important because they are arguing a straw man. If they are trying to ban certain guns because they claim they are military weapons when they are not, that is an important distinction, isn't it?

    It would be the same regarding abortion. When someone is arguing we should allow full term abortions because the fetus is not alive or human but part of the mother, that too is an argument from ignorance and should be stopped.

    How can someone propose a good solution regarding guns if they are ignorant of guns in the first place?

    Or back to the topic, the vaping fluids? If we are just going to ban the flavored vaping fluid just because some people got sick, without any actual proof that something in the flavored vaping fluid cause it, that would be ignorant and wrong.

  5. #44
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Because he seems to think that AR-15s are battlefield weapons:

    When asked if he was going to ban guns:


    "I am, if it's a weapon that was designed to kill people on a battlefield. If the high-impact, high-velocity round, when it hits your body, shreds everything inside of your body, because it was designed to do that, so that you would bleed to death on a battlefield and not be able to get up and kill one of our soldiers.

    When we see that being used against children, and in Odessa, I met the mother of a 15-year-old girl who was shot by an AR-15, and that mother watched her bleed to death over the course of an hour because so many other people were shot by that AR-15 in Odessa and Midland, there weren't enough ambulances to get to them in time. Hell, yes, we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47. We're not going to allow it to be used against our fellow Americans anymore."


    Also you can't own or operate an AK47 now. They ARE battlefield weapons, full automatic machine guns. You need a federal permit for them. And they ain't handing them out.
    According to wikipedia, the AR15 was originally designed to be a battlefield weapon:

    Source: wikipedia

    In 1956, ArmaLite designed a lightweight selective fire rifle for military use and designated it the ArmaLite Rifle model 15, or AR-15.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Jim

  6. #45
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    According to wikipedia, the AR15 was originally designed to be a battlefield weapon:

    Source: wikipedia

    In 1956, ArmaLite designed a lightweight selective fire rifle for military use and designated it the ArmaLite Rifle model 15, or AR-15.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Jim
    Which underwent modifications and additions before it was adapted to the military.
    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 09-16-2019 at 10:44 AM.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  7. #46
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Which underwent modifications and additions before it was adapted to the military.
    Just pointing out it originated as a military weapon, to serve military purposes. It was later that it became a weapon marketed to the public.

    Jim

  8. #47
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Just pointing out it originated as a military weapon, to serve military purposes. It was later that it became a weapon marketed to the public.

    Jim
    Which is the story for a lot of guns currently on the market, including bolt action rifles, sold today. Doesnít change the fact that the current M-4 model is illegal to own if youíre not a government agency. The reason the AR style is so popular today is because of its modular design and ability to quickly attach accessories. With many of its lightweight and recoil reduction features being adapted beyond the AR style rifles, so there really isnít much difference between AR and non AR styles today.
    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 09-16-2019 at 11:00 AM.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  9. #48
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    According to wikipedia, the AR15 was originally designed to be a battlefield weapon:

    Source: wikipedia

    In 1956, ArmaLite designed a lightweight selective fire rifle for military use and designated it the ArmaLite Rifle model 15, or AR-15.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Jim
    Well AR15s are not selective fire, so wikipedia is wrong. M16s are selective fire. including full auto. AR15s were not used in battle. Armalite sold the design to Colt which manufactured the M16s. The civilian version, the AR-15, is semiauto.

    actually checking wiki, I don't even see what you quoted:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-15
    The ArmaLite AR-15 is an air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed rifle manufactured in the United States between 1959 and 1964. Its military version was adopted by the United States Armed Forces as the M16 rifle. The military version M-16 was a select fire, air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed rifle.

  10. #49
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Well AR15s are not selective fire, so wikipedia is wrong. M16s are selective fire. including full auto. AR15s were not used in battle. Armalite sold the design to Colt which manufactured the M16s. The civilian version, the AR-15, is semiauto.

    actually checking wiki, I don't even see what you quoted:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-15
    The ArmaLite AR-15 is an air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed rifle manufactured in the United States between 1959 and 1964. Its military version was adopted by the United States Armed Forces as the M16 rifle. The military version M-16 was a select fire, air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed rifle.
    I suspect he is saying that the AR-15 was originally designed for the military, which is true, but the reality is the AR-15 was modified into the M-16 and itís modern M-4 brother. Plus both will likely look at being replaced in the next few years since the design is showing its age.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  11. #50
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    I suspect he is saying that the AR-15 was originally designed for the military, which is true, but the reality is the AR-15 was modified into the M-16 and itís modern M-4 brother. Plus both will likely look at being replaced in the next few years since the design is showing its age.
    Yep. You can buy M4 style civilian rifles too. Just because they make a civilian version of a military gun, doesn't make them military weapons like Beto is claiming.

    And as far as what Beto was saying about bullets that rip apart someone's insides? Yeah that is exactly what I would want for self-defense. I want to make sure that someone attacking me or my family is stopped. I want as unfair advantage as possible. The last thing you want is to shoot someone and just piss them off.

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