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Thread: Turning CO2 into fuel

  1. #101
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Here's the Act.

    My guess - assuming your numbers are correct - is that most coal mines aren't surface mines. Underground mines can't be 'restored'.

    Show me where this redesignation thing is.
    260-266

    There is nothing here about the land being restored to original state, even if it is federal land or a natural reserve. Rather in accordance with 1258(3), the company is allowed to propose alternate uses for the land. Such as that example I gave you of a coal mine that redesignated itself as a storage area for mining equipment. 1261 furthermore allows the companies to submit multiple (without limit), revisions to the permits, which has been done on more than one occasion, such as a coal company who skimped out on resculpturing the hills and valleys they destroyed, or rebuilding the top soil.

  2. #102
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    I don't mean to say that this Act wasn't a landmark decisions. Obviously coal companies aren't allowed to get away with blasting down entire mountains, dumping all the toxic waste near a river bed and calling it a day, anymore. But its not the rosy picture that Cow Poke sold me, where a forest, turned coal mine, is returned exactly back to a forest again. That's a rarity when it occurs. Not typical.

  3. #103
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    I don't mean to say that this Act wasn't a landmark decisions. Obviously coal companies aren't allowed to get away with blasting down entire mountains, dumping all the toxic waste near a river bed and calling it a day, anymore. But its not the rosy picture that Cow Poke sold me, where a forest, turned coal mine, is returned exactly back to a forest again. That's a rarity when it occurs. Not typical.
    So basically, you're pissed that we thought the Act specified 'original state'? And somehow reclamation isn't good enough unless the land reverts to original state no matter how much the surrounding land use has changed in the subsequent years or the needs of the owner when privately held?

    And you still owe me a page number - whether you agree or not, I dd provide the exact reference for my conclusion.

  4. #104
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    So basically, you're pissed that we thought the Act specified 'original state'?
    Thatís what I was told. A forest, turned coal mine, becomes a forest again.

    And you still owe me a page number - whether you agree or not, I dd provide the exact reference for my conclusion.
    I provided the same in a recent post. Iíll copy paste the post.

    260-266

    There is nothing here about the land being restored to original state, even if it is federal land or a natural reserve. Rather in accordance with 1258(3), the company is allowed to propose alternate uses for the land. Such as that example I gave you of a coal mine that redesignated itself as a storage area for mining equipment. 1261 furthermore allows the companies to submit multiple (without limit), revisions to the permits, which has been done on more than one occasion, such as a coal company who skimped out on resculpturing the hills and valleys they destroyed, or rebuilding the top soil.
    Last edited by Leonhard; 09-26-2019 at 03:36 PM.

  5. #105
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Thatís what I was told. A forest, turned coal mine, becomes a forest again.
    Because we thought it was the Federal law. I know I've seen it discussed as law - either I misunderstood or was looking at a state's requirements.

    But the land IS reclaimed, which, to me, is the more salient point.



    I provided the same in a recent post. Iíll copy paste the post.

    260-266

    There is nothing here about the land being restored to original state, even if it is federal land or a natural reserve. Rather in accordance with 1258(3), the company is allowed to propose alternate uses for the land. Such as that example I gave you of a coal mine that redesignated itself as a storage area for mining equipment. 1261 furthermore allows the companies to submit multiple (without limit), revisions to the permits, which has been done on more than one occasion, such as a coal company who skimped out on resculpturing the hills and valleys they destroyed, or rebuilding the top soil.
    Sorry, didn't catch the pages numbers.

    I'll get back to you in a day or so when I catch up.

  6. #106
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Yes, we are still waiting for YOU to back up YOUR claim.

    Stop stalling - get those quotes or withdraw the accusation.
    Does he really think people believe his con?
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  7. #107
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    How when less than 6% of the strip mined areas have had any kind of restoration done to them, and over 70% of those that were strip mined are just covered with gravel, some clay soil, get grass planted, and then the coal mining companies call it a day and their shareholders celebrate.

    And yes, I know you have a rainbow story, but will you at least acknowledge just how bleak the picture is.

    Its not "When a coal mine is made, a careful plan is follow through to return the area what the state it was in"

    Its more like "In 93% of cases, meaning all the strip mines of the sixties and seventies, the companies are allowed to get away with leaving them as they were. In the remaining 4% of cases, forest, river, valley or mountain, is turned to unused grassland that is designated for grazing even though no cows will graze there. And the last 2% of the time what was actually supposed to be done, is done, and we can claim that's the norm."
    All I know is that EVERY strip mine I know of in Texas has rigid environmental representatives on site, a complete plan is developed, top soil is removed and stored, and the land is returned to a pristine state. The most recent one I was involved with was absolutely beautiful, but was then invaded by a large herd of feral pigs, and they can destroy landscape like nobody's business.

    I'm sorry I don't have a more bleak outlook for you.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  8. #108
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Does he really think people believe his con?
    No. He's banking on people giving up in disgust so he can declare victory.

  9. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.

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