Announcement

Collapse

Natural Science 301 Guidelines

This is an open forum area for all members for discussions on all issues of science and origins. This area will and does get volatile at times, but we ask that it be kept to a dull roar, and moderators will intervene to keep the peace if necessary. This means obvious trolling and flaming that becomes a problem will be dealt with, and you might find yourself in the doghouse.

As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Turning CO2 into fuel

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
    Tell you what, I’ll go to bed. If you tell me where that waiver was only for 1 out of 5000 acres, I’ll pick the page for you (and double check that I even copied the right document)

    I better not argue anymore. It’s too bad that you guys get active around my bed time.
    Pages two and three of the application. I grant, it's a pain in the neck to read - and I'm double checking it myself now - but area affected is 0 acres and permitted land is 5000+ acres.


    Move to the US - problem solved!
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

    Quill Sword

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
      Pages two and three of the application. I grant, it's a pain in the neck to read - and I'm double checking it myself now - but area affected is 0 acres and permitted land is 5000+ acres.


      Move to the US - problem solved!
      It reads to me that that section is about resizing the areas.

      The repermit seems to be for the whole lot.

      Comment


      • #93
        Can we at least agree that mountain top removal mining of coal is not exactly good land stewardship?
        "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
          Can we at least agree that mountain top removal mining of coal is not exactly good land stewardship?
          Er, no. No problem with the general principle - but if we're putting in an interstate anyway...

          Regulation should have teeth - and a good leash.
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

          Quill Sword

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
            So can you or Cow Poke be reassuring when you’re trying to tell me that coal mining in nature preserves won’t harm it?
            I can.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
              Can we at least agree that mountain top removal mining of coal is not exactly good land stewardship?
              I really don't know much about mountain top removal - my only experience is in strip mining.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                You don't have to wait a second longer, Shuny --- produce the quotes! Or, admit you were wrong.
                Still waiting . . .
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  Still waiting . . .


                  Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                  Even if you did have to wait for that (which you don't, given that you made the statement and thus it's your job to back it up),...
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    Still waiting . . .
                    Yes, we are still waiting for YOU to back up YOUR claim.

                    Stop stalling - get those quotes or withdraw the accusation.
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      I can.
                      How when less than 6% of the strip mined areas have had any kind of restoration done to them, and over 70% of those that were strip mined are just covered with gravel, some clay soil, get grass planted, and then the coal mining companies call it a day and their shareholders celebrate.

                      And yes, I know you have a rainbow story, but will you at least acknowledge just how bleak the picture is.

                      Its not "When a coal mine is made, a careful plan is follow through to return the area what the state it was in"

                      Its more like "In 93% of cases, meaning all the strip mines of the sixties and seventies, the companies are allowed to get away with leaving them as they were. In the remaining 4% of cases, forest, river, valley or mountain, is turned to unused grassland that is designated for grazing even though no cows will graze there. And the last 2% of the time what was actually supposed to be done, is done, and we can claim that's the norm."
                      Last edited by Leonhard; 09-26-2019, 03:53 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        Here's the Act.

                        My guess - assuming your numbers are correct - is that most coal mines aren't surface mines. Underground mines can't be 'restored'.

                        Show me where this redesignation thing is.
                        260-266

                        There is nothing here about the land being restored to original state, even if it is federal land or a natural reserve. Rather in accordance with 1258(3), the company is allowed to propose alternate uses for the land. Such as that example I gave you of a coal mine that redesignated itself as a storage area for mining equipment. 1261 furthermore allows the companies to submit multiple (without limit), revisions to the permits, which has been done on more than one occasion, such as a coal company who skimped out on resculpturing the hills and valleys they destroyed, or rebuilding the top soil.

                        Comment


                        • I don't mean to say that this Act wasn't a landmark decisions. Obviously coal companies aren't allowed to get away with blasting down entire mountains, dumping all the toxic waste near a river bed and calling it a day, anymore. But its not the rosy picture that Cow Poke sold me, where a forest, turned coal mine, is returned exactly back to a forest again. That's a rarity when it occurs. Not typical.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                            I don't mean to say that this Act wasn't a landmark decisions. Obviously coal companies aren't allowed to get away with blasting down entire mountains, dumping all the toxic waste near a river bed and calling it a day, anymore. But its not the rosy picture that Cow Poke sold me, where a forest, turned coal mine, is returned exactly back to a forest again. That's a rarity when it occurs. Not typical.
                            So basically, you're pissed that we thought the Act specified 'original state'? And somehow reclamation isn't good enough unless the land reverts to original state no matter how much the surrounding land use has changed in the subsequent years or the needs of the owner when privately held?

                            And you still owe me a page number - whether you agree or not, I dd provide the exact reference for my conclusion.
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              So basically, you're pissed that we thought the Act specified 'original state'?
                              That’s what I was told. A forest, turned coal mine, becomes a forest again.

                              And you still owe me a page number - whether you agree or not, I dd provide the exact reference for my conclusion.
                              I provided the same in a recent post. I’ll copy paste the post.

                              260-266

                              There is nothing here about the land being restored to original state, even if it is federal land or a natural reserve. Rather in accordance with 1258(3), the company is allowed to propose alternate uses for the land. Such as that example I gave you of a coal mine that redesignated itself as a storage area for mining equipment. 1261 furthermore allows the companies to submit multiple (without limit), revisions to the permits, which has been done on more than one occasion, such as a coal company who skimped out on resculpturing the hills and valleys they destroyed, or rebuilding the top soil.
                              Last edited by Leonhard; 09-26-2019, 05:36 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                                That’s what I was told. A forest, turned coal mine, becomes a forest again.
                                Because we thought it was the Federal law. I know I've seen it discussed as law - either I misunderstood or was looking at a state's requirements.

                                But the land IS reclaimed, which, to me, is the more salient point.



                                I provided the same in a recent post. I’ll copy paste the post.

                                260-266

                                There is nothing here about the land being restored to original state, even if it is federal land or a natural reserve. Rather in accordance with 1258(3), the company is allowed to propose alternate uses for the land. Such as that example I gave you of a coal mine that redesignated itself as a storage area for mining equipment. 1261 furthermore allows the companies to submit multiple (without limit), revisions to the permits, which has been done on more than one occasion, such as a coal company who skimped out on resculpturing the hills and valleys they destroyed, or rebuilding the top soil.
                                Sorry, didn't catch the pages numbers.

                                I'll get back to you in a day or so when I catch up.
                                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                                My Personal Blog

                                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                                Quill Sword

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-18-2024, 12:15 PM
                                48 responses
                                135 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Sparko
                                by Sparko
                                 
                                Started by Sparko, 03-07-2024, 08:52 AM
                                16 responses
                                74 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post shunyadragon  
                                Started by rogue06, 02-28-2024, 11:06 AM
                                6 responses
                                47 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post shunyadragon  
                                Working...
                                X