Announcement

Collapse

Natural Science 301 Guidelines

This is an open forum area for all members for discussions on all issues of science and origins. This area will and does get volatile at times, but we ask that it be kept to a dull roar, and moderators will intervene to keep the peace if necessary. This means obvious trolling and flaming that becomes a problem will be dealt with, and you might find yourself in the doghouse.

As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Turning CO2 into fuel

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    I do remember that some cars after WW-II ran on alchohol powered steam engines. You had to start the car half an hour before you intended to drive it.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
      I do remember that some cars after WW-II ran on alchohol powered steam engines. You had to start the car half an hour before you intended to drive it.
      This one works on wood gasification. Pretty interesting.


      https://www.motherearthnews.com/gree...k-zmaz81mjzraw

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
        While that's true, you also told me things that turned out not to quite hold water. When I talked about the wanton destruction of natural habitats in persuit of coal mining, you told me that coal companies were now forced to restore those areas to the state they were in originally.

        You failed to mention though, that this only accounts for around 6% of all coal mines, and you also forgot to mention that coal companies are allowed to redesignate what the original state was, changing it to something it wasn't to begin with. Like a storage area for spent diesel equipment as one coal company got away with doing.

        And when I asked you about that, you referred back to the one sole example you've given me where a coal company restored a natural reserve back to what it used to be.

        So it does seem you believe in being a good steward, but you also seem to turn a blind eye to a lot of things the Republicans support in this area. They want to start coal mining, and fracking, and new oil wells deep inside existing natural reservations. And you want me to believe these companies will be forced to restore it to pristine, original, natural state, and not merely to "grassland"?
        Here's the Act.

        My guess - assuming your numbers are correct - is that most coal mines aren't surface mines. Underground mines can't be 'restored'.

        Show me where this redesignation thing is.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

        Quill Sword

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          This one works on wood gasification. Pretty interesting.


          https://www.motherearthnews.com/gree...k-zmaz81mjzraw
          Wood gas was also used during WWII.
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

          Quill Sword

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
            Here's the Act.

            My guess - assuming your numbers are correct - is that most coal mines aren't surface mines. Underground mines can't be 'restored'.

            Show me where this redesignation thing is.
            77-page tome right before bed time. Yikes. I’ll see if I can fish it out, but there’s nothing that I see about them restoring say a forested area back to anything other than ‘grassland’.

            Several coal companies also just reapply the permit.

            Typically the top soil isn’t restored but replaced by something grass and some shrub can grow in.

            I’ll see if I have time to dig out the sources, but it as far as I know it’s only 6% of closer coal surface mines that have been even partially reclaimed. The rest are left as is.

            The coal companies have happily passed the bill to others.

            Comment


            • #81
              Here a mining company applied for repermit designating the intended use of the area as ‘Mining equipment storage’

              https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...plication.html

              Sparko, Cow Poke, do you call that proper restoration?
              Last edited by Leonhard; 09-24-2019, 03:20 PM.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                77-page tome right before bed time. Yikes. I’ll see if I can fish it out, but there’s nothing that I see about them restoring say a forested area back to anything other than ‘grassland’.

                Several coal companies also just reapply the permit.

                Typically the top soil isn’t restored but replaced by something grass and some shrub can grow in.

                I’ll see if I have time to dig out the sources, but it as far as I know it’s only 6% of closer coal surface mines that have been even partially reclaimed. The rest are left as is.

                The coal companies have happily passed the bill to others.
                It might depend on who owns the land. A lot of strip mining is done on private property where the owner sells the mineral rights. The owner probably controls how the land is restored. If they leased out forested land but wanted it cleared, they could probably just tell the mine company to restore it to grassland. Or a shopping mall. This is just a guess, btw.

                My grandpa sold the mineral rights to a mountain on his land in Appalachia and when they were done, they restored it back to the way it was originally, albeit with baby trees. Today you can't tell where the mine was.

                Comment


                • #83
                  The simplest tactic used by most of the mines is simply to designate the intended use of the land as ‘grazing’ even though in 77% of the cases this wasn’t the original state of the land, and it doesn’t end up being used for grazing.

                  https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...784-OH-09.html

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    I apologize for the fragmented posting. I’m lying in my bed and using my phone.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                      I apologize for the fragmented posting. I’m lying in my bed and using my phone.
                      I moved your posts to the proper thread. here.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        It might depend on who owns the land. A lot of strip mining is done on private property where the owner sells the mineral rights. The owner probably controls how the land is restored. If they leased out forested land but wanted it cleared, they could probably just tell the mine company to restore it to grassland. Or a shopping mall. This is just a guess, btw.

                        My grandpa sold the mineral rights to a mountain on his land in Appalachia and when they were done, they restored it back to the way it was originally, albeit with baby trees. Today you can't tell where the mine was.
                        But Sparko your example is obviously a sunshine example. If these reports I’m reading are correct (I’ll post them later), most of the reclamation being done is just slapping gravel and clay on top of the mine, planting grass and calling it a day.

                        Do you agree that this is not proper restoration?

                        So can you or Cow Poke be reassuring when you’re trying to tell me that coal mining in nature preserves won’t harm it?

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                          Here a mining company applied for repermit designating the intended use of the area as ‘Mining equipment storage’

                          https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...plication.html

                          Sparko, Cow Poke, do you call that proper restoration?
                          The waiver requested would allow continued use of the land, rather than abandonment with no reclamation. That's fully consistent with the intent of the law - HOWEVER...

                          Read the darn application! The waiver is for LESS THAN AN ACRE - the permit area is over 5000 acres!! They just want to keep the loadout (basically the gate/office area) in use, not the whole mine.

                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                          My Personal Blog

                          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                          Quill Sword

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                            But Sparko your example is obviously a sunshine example. If these reports I’m reading (I’ll post them later), most of the reclamation being done is just slapping gravel and clay on top of the mine, planting grass and calling it a day.

                            Do you agree that this is not proper restoration?
                            If they are doing that instead of what the land owner wants, then yes. Or if they are doing it on public land. Your earlier example regarding the mining equipment seemed to read to me as if they were doing what the land owner consented and were filing for permission. How is that wrong?

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                              The simplest tactic used by most of the mines is simply to designate the intended use of the land as ‘grazing’ even though in 77% of the cases this wasn’t the original state of the land, and it doesn’t end up being used for grazing.

                              https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...784-OH-09.html
                              Page?
                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Quill Sword

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                                Page?
                                Tell you what, I’ll go to bed. If you tell me where that waiver was only for 1 out of 5000 acres, I’ll pick the page for you (and double check that I even copied the right document)

                                I better not argue anymore. It’s too bad that you guys get active around my bed time.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-18-2024, 12:15 PM
                                48 responses
                                135 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Sparko
                                by Sparko
                                 
                                Started by Sparko, 03-07-2024, 08:52 AM
                                16 responses
                                74 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post shunyadragon  
                                Started by rogue06, 02-28-2024, 11:06 AM
                                6 responses
                                47 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post shunyadragon  
                                Working...
                                X