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Thread: Trump Administration Whistleblower Cover-Up

  1. #11
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    I question the salvation of anyone who is quick to question people's salvation.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Nationalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

  2. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  3. #12
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVel View Post
    1) Broad brush sweeps everyone into a corner, against you.
    Not against me Maxvel, against the two fundamental principles I mentioned. If the people Trump relies on to avoid accountability do not speak against his actions, he is emboldened. Each day he goes that many steps farther, because each day he discovers he can in fact go farther without running into a red line that says "You can't do that Mr. President". Can you imagine if Richard Nixon had just decided he was going to ignore the subpoena for the tapes? Or if the courts had sided with him that he could refuse on the grounds of executive privaledge? In that day, the president was still subject to the law.

    2) Trump is a symptom, not the cause. America has been in serious trouble, in a variety of ways, for decades.
    Well then, if people recognize that - how then can they side with it and send us even farther down that road? It leads to ruin. Who will step up and say 'No further!'

    3) People aren't going to rush to condemn Trump for something that CNN et al report, just because they reported it. Too many 'fake news' events for anyone with much common sense to rush to judgment.
    This is just the latest in a string of refusals to yield to legal subpoenas. The report exists, else the Intelligence department would not be refusing to hand it over, they'd just say 'it doesn't exist'. This is an investigation to determine if Impeachment is warranted. You take away the power to subpoena information, and you couple that with the DOJ policy ad sitting president can't be indited, and the president is then above the law. Because the only capacity to remove a rogue president is impeachment. And impeachment only works if you can establish the president has broken the law. And if the president can silence the witnesses of the people observing the crimes and the documents exposing the crimes through the doctrine of executive privilege, then impeachment is a toothless lion and the President is in fact above the law.

    4) Who here has said that Trump is above the law? People not agreeing with you that a particular act Trump is accused of is actually breaking the law IS NOT the same as them saying he is above the law.
    You persist in this kind of misrepresentation of other's positions; attack their integrity, morality and question their very salvation on the basis of that misrepresentation; and then act surprised when they attack you in response.
    By supporting him as he hides the evidence the people supporting him agree he is above the law. Without a capacity to gather evidence for the breaking of the law, the president is in fact above the law. Because it cant then be legally established that he broke the law. Therefore he can't be held accountable for breaking the law. It is an end run. We MUST support the efforts to get information that would expose a crime. Otherwise we are allowing our system of checks and balances to fail to control a rogue president.

    It he is innocent, that information will show he is innocent and he has nothing to lose. But if he is guilty, we cannot allow him to hide that information. If we do, then we betray fundamental principles that are necessary to keep us a free people.


    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  4. Amen JimL amen'd this post.
  5. #13
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I will never understand how easily so many of you are able to adopt the position that President Trump is above the law, and that it is good for his people to lie and thumb their noses at subpeanas that are really the only difference between the President being subject to the law and being above the law. As it stands right now, with the help of the Republicans in Congress, supporters like yourselves, his loyalist DOJ appointments, Donald Trump is above the law. And he has shown the way for every president that is to follow exactly how to rebuff the concept of the separation of powers and create an environment where the President cannot be held accountable for his actions.

    Each day his power grows. Each day he grows bolder. Each win against accountability - supported by people just like you - is a defeat for our republic and two of the most basic principles of its existence: the separations of powers and the rule of law (no man is above the law - even the President).


    Jim
    Hi pot, how are you doing today?

    Your friend,
    Kettle
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  6. #14
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    I question the salvation of anyone who is quick to question people's salvation.
    The accusation I have ever questioned anyone's claim to Christian faith or their salvation is a lie. MM has done that direclty and to me. You should be directing this post to him.

    But I NEVER have.

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  7. Amen Roy amen'd this post.
  8. #15
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVel View Post
    You persist in this kind of misrepresentation of other's positions; attack their integrity, morality and question their very salvation on the basis of that misrepresentation; and then act surprised when they attack you in response.
    This is absurd. Saying that supporting Trump refusal to submit to the law is dangerous to our country has nothing to do with anyone's salvation or even necessarily their integrity. It has to do with their blindness to the effect of what he is doing and their ability to be seduced by the promises and lies of this President. If you believe that one can not call out a mistake, or an error, without 'questioning a persons salvation' then you are most completely wrong. We are commanded to go to a brother and confront them with their sin of we see a brother in sin. The statement above would equate that with questioning their salvation.

    "A fool refuses wise counsel", The Proverbs are filled with sayings that show we must be able to take rebuke or harsh advice. Only fools refuse to be corrected or to be called out on a mistake. Not one of has the internal objectivity to stay on the correct path without external correction.


    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  9. #16
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I will never understand how easily so many of you are able to adopt the position that President Trump is above the law, and that it is good for his people to lie and thumb their noses at subpeanas that are really the only difference between the President being subject to the law and being above the law. As it stands right now, with the help of the Republicans in Congress, supporters like yourselves, his loyalist DOJ appointments, Donald Trump is above the law. And he has shown the way for every president that is to follow exactly how to rebuff the concept of the separation of powers and create an environment where the President cannot be held accountable for his actions.

    Each day his power grows. Each day he grows bolder. Each win against accountability - supported by people just like you - is a defeat for our republic and two of the most basic principles of its existence: the separations of powers and the rule of law (no man is above the law - even the President).


    Jim
    I have no idea how you got all of that out of my comment, but it made me laugh, so it wasn't a complete waste of time.

    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  10. #17
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I have no idea how you got all of that out of my comment, but it made me laugh, so it wasn't a complete waste of time.

    Glad to have brought some joy into your day.

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  11. #18
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    The accusation I have ever questioned anyone's claim to Christian faith or their salvation is a lie.
    Perhaps not directly, but you have on numerous occasions questioned how anyone who calls himself a Christian could ever disagree with you, which certainly implies that someone's faith may not be genuine.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  12. #19
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Perhaps not directly, but you have on numerous occasions questioned how anyone who calls himself a Christian could ever disagree with you, which certainly implies that someone's faith may not be genuine.
    That actually is also not accurate.

    What I have done us call into question the compatibility of a position or idea with Christian faith or doctrine. And I usually explain where I see the conflict. Many people take that personally, but it is not meant to be personal. It is meant to bring to light what may be being overlooked. It is something I hope others will do to me if I get off track, and it is always possible I am wrong. All that I ask or expect from such comments is that people look inward to see if I have a point, or that they offer a reasoned explanation of why what I observe as a conflict is not one. But that is rarely the response I get.


    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  13. #20
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVel View Post
    Yet here we are, attempting intelligent and objective conversation in a Civics thread started by JimL. I guess we never learn, either.
    I'm trying to get over the stunning development that he provided LINKS!
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  14. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.

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