Originally posted by seer
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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The Apathetic God Paradox-Refuted
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. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by seer View PostYes shuny, I'm sure you do think it is to simplistic but thankfully we have Scripture to set us straight. And yes when Scripture says that God is love, or God is just, or merciful or righteous, it is speaking of His attributes. And in keeping with the objection in the OP these attributes are inherent to His nature, not merely attributes He decides to exercise as if He could decide otherwise.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostGood analogy, Baha'i translates a follower of 'light.'. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Truthseeker View PostIt seems to me that the author needs to define "morality" in a way that is independent of the argument. For one thing, someone could say that every being has his own system of morals or ethics. Even Hitler could be said to have his.
The reality is from the whole history of humanity is that individual behavior good or bad does not represent morality of the greater societies and groups from which morality is the standard..
As far as the justification of the very human nature of morality, the best evidence is simply the science of human and higher mammal behavior as it evolved to meet the needs of intelligent species. Simple forms of morality in higher mammals like other primates and sea mammals demonstrate the evolution of morals based on the need of the species to survive.
His argument concerning the problems of Divine source of morality is more the presentation of what he sees as the contradictions of such a view, and not a proof.
In my view the claims of the nebulous, vague and undefined claims of a Divine 'Objective Morality' as the standard of human morality is a terribly weak argument based on similar problems as presented in the essay.Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-30-2014, 07:54 AM.
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Originally posted by TimelessTheist View Posthttp://www.strongatheism.net/library...c_god_paradox/unless he can prove his materialistic viewpoint of morality and desires that validates the starting premise, his argument seems to be, for all intents and purposes, refuted.
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. . .materialistic viewpoint of morality . . .. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWhat evidence do you have that there is a credible non-materialistic viewpoint of morality, or indeed the existence of a non-material world of any kind? Morals are grounded in the material world. They are derivatives of self-preservation and procreation in every case and are a consequence of natural selection. They are naturally built into us, because those morals were beneficial to the breeding and survival of our species as social animals.
Originally posted by Tassman View PostThey are derivatives of self-preservation and procreation in every case and are a consequence of natural selection.They are naturally built into us, because those morals were beneficial to the breeding and survival of our species as social animals.
Of course you reject that alternative because you reject the Bible as unproven. Well, very few things can be proven like theorems in mathematics. Maybe you need to realize we necessarily have to use probabilistic reasoning to make way in our lives.
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Originally posted by Truthseeker View PostYou or someone else can derive a moral system from material facts of the universe. But an infinity of moral systems can be created. The problem then is, which system is the best?
But self preservation and procreation themselves are part of many moral systems. Or because God created Adam and Eve as images of God and created in them consciences.
Of course you reject that alternative because you reject the Bible as unproven. Well, very few things can be proven like theorems in mathematics. Maybe you need to realize we necessarily have to use probabilistic reasoning to make way in our lives.
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