The Greening Of The Earth...

[Sparko]

That is an interesting thing. Since the industrial age do we really know how much the oceans have risen?

Venice is still not underwater any more than it always has been.

[seer]

Venice is still not underwater any more than it always has been.

There is no noticeable change up here in the Atlantic where I have been going for 50 years.

[rogue06]

That is an interesting thing. Since the industrial age do we really know how much the oceans have risen?

If you look at ancient ports and coastal cities as a guide you can see how shorelines change.

For instance, cities built only a couple thousand years ago along coasts can be found either submerged or miles from the present day shore. Ostia Antica, which was a port city connected to ancient Rome by a wall is now 2 miles from the sea. Troy was also described as being next to the sea but its ruins are now 4 miles away from it.

And of course some cities are now nothing but undersea ruins. One very recent example is the village of Hampton-on-Sea in southeastern England which finally went under in the early part of the last century. For a larger example there is the Egyptian city of Heracleion which was ancient Egypt's main port for international trade and collection of taxes but now is 1½ miles off that country's coast under roughly 33' of water.

[Sparko]

If you look at ancient ports and coastal cities as a guide you can see how shorelines change.

For instance, cities built only a couple thousand years ago along coasts can be found either submerged or miles from the present day shore. Ostia Antica, which was a port city connected to ancient Rome by a wall is now 2 miles from the sea. Troy was also described as being next to the sea but its ruins are now 4 miles away from it.

And of course some cities are now nothing but undersea ruins. One very recent example is the village of Hampton-on-Sea in southeastern England which finally went under in the early part of the last century. For a larger example there is the Egyptian city of Heracleion which was ancient Egypt's main port for international trade and collection of taxes but now is 1½ miles off that country's coast under roughly 33' of water.

Well you can hardly blame that on man-made global warming then. And Egypt's coast changes all the time because of the Nile.

[seer]

If you look at ancient ports and coastal cities as a guide you can see how shorelines change.

For instance, cities built only a couple thousand years ago along coasts can be found either submerged or miles from the present day shore. Ostia Antica, which was a port city connected to ancient Rome by a wall is now 2 miles from the sea. Troy was also described as being next to the sea but its ruins are now 4 miles away from it.

And of course some cities are now nothing but undersea ruins. One very recent example is the village of Hampton-on-Sea in southeastern England which finally went under in the early part of the last century. For a larger example there is the Egyptian city of Heracleion which was ancient Egypt's main port for international trade and collection of taxes but now is 1½ miles off that country's coast under roughly 33' of water.

Right and didn't all these happen before the industrial revolution? Like I said the earth has been warming for quite some time. I'm just wondering if we have any real numbers for the last hundred years.

[Sparko]

Right and didn't all these happen before the industrial revolution? Like I said the earth has been warming for quite some time. I'm just wondering if we have any real numbers for the last hundred years.

Lurch gave me a chart in the other thread I was asking him about global warming and sea rise. I can't find it though.

[seer]

Lurch gave me a chart in the other thread I was asking him about global warming and sea rise. I can't find it though.

I'm sure there must be some rise, but nothing we can't handle...

[rogue06]

Well you can hardly blame that on man-made global warming then. And Egypt's coast changes all the time because of the Nile.

Right and didn't all these happen before the industrial revolution? Like I said the earth has been warming for quite some time. I'm just wondering if we have any real numbers for the last hundred years.

The point was that in some areas the shorelines had retreated while in others they advanced.

[Teallaura]

Yeah, there are lighthouses that are now further inland and several that had to be moved away from the encroaching water - much of that measurable in the last 50 years.

It proves the shorelines change - but not why.

[Leonhard]

This looks interesting, I'll enjoy reading it. Thanks for the find seer.

[Sparko]

The point was that in some areas the shorelines had retreated while in others they advanced.

A lot has to do with erosion and with plate tectonic activity as some land rises and some sinks.

[rogue06]

A lot has to do with erosion and with plate tectonic activity as some land rises and some sinks.

Many other factors including silt build up and insufficient sacrifices to Al Gore.

[Sparko]

Many other factors including silt build up and insufficient sacrifices to Al Gore.

[Joel]

It should help, just not enough. Theoretically it helps the warming too in that more plant life tends to produce cooler temperatures where the plants are. Again, just not enough.

Jim

Why won't it be enough? All the extra CO2 comes from burning fossil fuels, which used to be in living things, right? So all that CO2 used to be part of the ecosystem and got "sequestered" in plants and animals. So it used to be "enough".

You'd have to look at how much CO2 is sequestered by that additional vegitation, vs how much is being input per year.

Bottom line, the measured CO2 content of the atmosphere is going up. monotonically. That value represents the sum of all the inputs to the atmosphere and all the processes that can pull CO2 out. We don't have to know what they all are to know that there isn't enough CO2 sinks to compensate for what is being put into the atmosphere.

So it is not enough.

Oh, so you just mean it isn't enough to balance the net rate right now. Not that it can't/won't be enough ever. At the very least, once there are no more fossil fuels (or alternatives become more economical than fossil fuels), then the input goes away, and the sinks would make the atmospheric CO2 decline, right?

[oxmixmudd]

Why won't it be enough? All the extra CO2 comes from burning fossil fuels, which used to be in living things, right? So all that CO2 used to be part of the ecosystem and got "sequestered" in plants and animals. So it used to be "enough".


Oh, so you just mean it isn't enough to balance the net rate right now. Not that it can't/won't be enough ever. At the very least, once there are no more fossil fuels (or alternatives become more economical than fossil fuels), then the input goes away, and the sinks would make the atmospheric CO2 decline, right?

It represents millions of years of plant material converted to oil and coal. We easily outpace by burning what can be sequestered by new plant growth

Jim