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House Speaker Pelosi to announce formal impeachment inquiry of Trump

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  • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    An editorialization is not a paraphrase.

    https://www.ppcc.edu/application/fil...ion_Method.pdf

    Definition of paraphrase: an up-close re-phrasing of a source idea in your own words that still maintains the sense and content of the original; not necessarily briefer than the original; often, a sentence or two of a particular page or section of the source is the basis for a paraphrase.

    Do’s and Don’t’s of Paraphrasing (in part, from pp. 181-83):

    Be sure that you do not stray from the original source/sentence’s idea or point. Ensuring that you fully understand the original is key to avoiding your own inference or editorializing.


    C'mon Sam...
    As I said earlier, for the pedantic, both paraphrase and parody are forms of derivative expression. What Schiff did was paraphrase: if he wants to call it parody, that's a wholly common use of the term and it's something y'all have done recently with every intent to convey what you thought was really the underlying meaning of someone's post. If I or anyone else had complained about our posts being changed, you would both claim it was parody but what was really being conveyed, if only we were clear and honest in our intentions.

    Don't play stupid just because that's the talking point. Be smart, have self-respect.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sam View Post
      As I said earlier, for the pedantic, both paraphrase and parody are forms of derivative expression.
      So what? Only one is an accurate representation.

      What Schiff did was paraphrase:
      False. He editorialized, which is by definition not paraphrase.

      if he wants to call it parody, that's a wholly common use of the term and it's something y'all have done recently with every intent to convey what you thought was really the underlying meaning of someone's post.
      Parody isn't paraphrase.

      If I or anyone else had complained about our posts being changed, you would both claim it was parody but what was really being conveyed, if only we were clear and honest in our intentions.
      We allow parody here. We do not claim it was actually what you said.

      Don't play stupid just because that's the talking point. Be smart, have self-respect.
      You're wrong. Just admit it and move on.
      That's what
      - She

      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
      - Stephen R. Donaldson

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
        So what? Only one is an accurate representation.



        False. He editorialized, which is by definition not paraphrase.



        Parody isn't paraphrase.



        We allow parody here. We do not claim it was actually what you said.



        You're wrong. Just admit it and move on.

        Step a good three steps back and try to figure out what the argument even is anymore.

        1) Are y'all arguing that Schiff was trying to pass off a paraphrase as a literal quote? Because it's obvious that he wasn't and it was obvious as he was saying it by the preceding sentence.

        2) Are y'all arguing that Schiff should've said he was paraphrasing instead of saying he was parodying? That's kinda a pathetic hill to die on!

        Rogue argued (1), repeatedly, when even a scintilla of common sense or looking up the transcript would've disabused him of the false accusation. Now folks are arguing about (2), as though it's a meaningful substitute of (1).

        Just dumb.

        --Sam
        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sam View Post
          Step a good three steps back and try to figure out what the argument even is anymore.

          1) Are y'all arguing that Schiff was trying to pass off a paraphrase as a literal quote? Because it's obvious that he wasn't and it was obvious as he was saying it by the preceding sentence.

          2) Are y'all arguing that Schiff should've said he was paraphrasing instead of saying he was parodying? That's kinda a pathetic hill to die on!

          Rogue argued (1), repeatedly, when even a scintilla of common sense or looking up the transcript would've disabused him of the false accusation. Now folks are arguing about (2), as though it's a meaningful substitute of (1).

          Just dumb.

          --Sam
          I am saying Schiff neither paraphrased nor directly quoted Trump. He editorialized and added his own interpretation and tried to pass it off as a fact. Full stop. Until you can admit that, you have no idea what dumb even is.
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          - Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
            I am saying Schiff neither paraphrased nor directly quoted Trump. He editorialized and added his own interpretation and tried to pass it off as a fact. Full stop. Until you can admit that, you have no idea what dumb even is.
            That's not what Rogue's claim was, nor the claim that's been goin' round the Trump-folk circles.

            The claim is not that Schiff paraphrased Trump and claimed it was an accurate paraphrase (a matter of debate). The claim is that Schiff fabricated a quote, attributed it to Trump, and only later acknowledged it wasn't a direct quote.

            If you're talkin' about something else, you're not talking about the same thing we are.

            --Sam
            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sam View Post
              That's not what Rogue's claim was, nor the claim that's been goin' round the Trump-folk circles.

              The claim is not that Schiff paraphrased Trump and claimed it was an accurate paraphrase (a matter of debate). The claim is that Schiff fabricated a quote, attributed it to Trump, and only later acknowledged it wasn't a direct quote.

              If you're talkin' about something else, you're not talking about the same thing we are.

              --Sam
              No, you are. If you have MM on ignore then stop answering him. Otherwise, both he and BTC have cited the law itself so everyone else knew what page we were on.

              Also - pretty sure you're ignoring me
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Quill Sword

              Comment


              • In other news, House Minority Leader calling on Pelosi to walk back inquiry. Also to remove Schiff since he is now a witness of fact.

                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                Quill Sword

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                  But it WASN'T a paraphrase. He editorialized Trump's comments. Editorializing isn't paraphrasing.
                  It was a paraphrase, Schiff said himself that it was the essense of what Trump said on the call, not the exact wording, and indeed it was the essence of what Trump said. When Zelensky asked for military aid and Trump answers by saying, "but I need a favor from you though." Then every intelligent person in such a conversation would have no problem understanding what that means. And that is what Schiff was expressing, "the essense" of what Trump said.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    It was a paraphrase, Schiff said himself that it was the essense of what Trump said on the call, not the exact wording, and indeed it was the essence of what Trump said. When Zelensky asked for military aid and Trump answers by saying, "but I need a favor from you though." Then every intelligent person in such a conversation would have no problem understanding what that means. And that is what Schiff was expressing, "the essense" of what Trump said.
                    Drugs are bad....
                    That's what
                    - She

                    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                    - Stephen R. Donaldson

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                      In other news, House Minority Leader calling on Pelosi to walk back inquiry. Also to remove Schiff since he is now a witness of fact.

                      That's about the level of competence one would expect of McCarthy, who today rhetorically asked whether Trump's lawyers would get to mount a legal defense in an impeachment inquiry (the correct answer is "No, the Senate is where a trial occurs, Congressman").
                      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                      Comment


                      • Welp, there's another Trump-branded talking point down.

                        Source: Trump Envoys Pushed Ukraine to Commit to Investigations. Kenneth R. Vogel and Michael S. Schmidt. NYT. 2019.10.03

                        Two of President Trump’s top envoys to Ukraine drafted a statement for the country’s new president in August that would have committed Ukraine to pursuing investigations sought by Mr. Trump into his political rivals, three people briefed on the effort said.

                        The drafting of the statement marks new evidence of how Mr. Trump’s fixation with Ukraine began driving senior diplomats to bend American foreign policy to the president’s political agenda in the weeks after the July 25 call between the two leaders.


                        The statement was drafted by Gordon D. Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union, and Kurt D. Volker, then the State Department’s envoy to Ukraine, according to the three people who have been briefed on it.

                        ...

                        The statement was written with the awareness of a top aide to the Ukrainian president, as well as Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer and the de facto leader of a shadow campaign to push the Ukrainians to press ahead with investigations that could be of political benefit to Mr. Trump, according to one of the people briefed on it.

                        ...

                        The drafting of the statement, which came in the weeks after the July 25 phone call between Mr. Trump and Mr. Zelensky, was an effort to pacify Mr. Trump and Mr. Giuliani and normalize relations between the two countries as Ukraine faced continuing conflict with Russia. Mr. Sondland and Mr. Volker believed that Mr. Giuliani was “poisoning” Mr. Trump’s mind about Ukraine and that eliciting a public commitment from Mr. Zelensky to pursue the investigations would induce Mr. Trump to more fully support the new Ukrainian government, according to the people familiar with it.

                        © Copyright Original Source

                        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                        Comment


                        • I've said for a while Pelosi wasn't in control - now I'm wondering if she's even keeping up.

                          Source: Daily Caller


                          Pelosi doubled down on the egregious claim after Stephanopoulos pushed back. Schiff himself said that the reading was “parody” following outrage from Republicans. (RELATED: Schiff Knew Of Whistleblower Complaint Before It Was Filed)

                          “He did not make it up,” Pelosi continued. “And look, I want to tell you something. When I took the oath of office to defend the constitution, as my colleagues have done, I did not say, ‘I will do this as long as the Republicans can understand the constitution.'”
                          Source

                          © Copyright Original Source




                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                          My Personal Blog

                          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                          Quill Sword

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                            Welp, there's another Trump-branded talking point down.

                            Source: Trump Envoys Pushed Ukraine to Commit to Investigations. Kenneth R. Vogel and Michael S. Schmidt. NYT. 2019.10.03

                            Two of President Trump’s top envoys to Ukraine drafted a statement for the country’s new president in August that would have committed Ukraine to pursuing investigations sought by Mr. Trump into his political rivals, three people briefed on the effort said.

                            The drafting of the statement marks new evidence of how Mr. Trump’s fixation with Ukraine began driving senior diplomats to bend American foreign policy to the president’s political agenda in the weeks after the July 25 call between the two leaders.


                            The statement was drafted by Gordon D. Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union, and Kurt D. Volker, then the State Department’s envoy to Ukraine, according to the three people who have been briefed on it.

                            ...

                            The statement was written with the awareness of a top aide to the Ukrainian president, as well as Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer and the de facto leader of a shadow campaign to push the Ukrainians to press ahead with investigations that could be of political benefit to Mr. Trump, according to one of the people briefed on it.

                            ...

                            The drafting of the statement, which came in the weeks after the July 25 phone call between Mr. Trump and Mr. Zelensky, was an effort to pacify Mr. Trump and Mr. Giuliani and normalize relations between the two countries as Ukraine faced continuing conflict with Russia. Mr. Sondland and Mr. Volker believed that Mr. Giuliani was “poisoning” Mr. Trump’s mind about Ukraine and that eliciting a public commitment from Mr. Zelensky to pursue the investigations would induce Mr. Trump to more fully support the new Ukrainian government, according to the people familiar with it.

                            © Copyright Original Source


                            Where's the link?
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              Where's the link?
                              My apologies:

                              Trump Envoys Pushed Ukraine to Commit to Investigations
                              "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                                The most striking poll number illustrating the partisan divide I've seen: Kat Timpf of National Review pointed out the other day that only 40% of Republicans even believe that Trump mentioned Biden on the Ukraine call, even though Trump outright admitted doing so. (The number for Democrats was 85%.)(
                                Guano Williams mentioned that the other day on The Five.

                                Is there any word on how many Democrats believe he mentioned Biden over and over?
                                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                                Beige Federalist.

                                Nationalist Christian.

                                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                                Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                                Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                                Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                                Justice for Matthew Perna!

                                Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                                Comment

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