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Thread: Tesla million mile battery

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    Tesla million mile battery

    A few months back Elon Musk anounced that they had a technology that would allow a battery to last 1,000,000 miles. A study was released of that technology that shows that indeed, they have a battery technology that will only lose 10% of its capacity in 1,000,000 miles. That is quite amazing. The interesting thing is that they published sufficient details to allow others to apply the technologies to their own battery production. This has generated some speculation Tesla already has something even better.

    1,000,000 miles on a battery does a couple of things.

    1) it provides a market for used batteries. It they last nearly forever, just put them in another car if he first one dies
    2) it means fewer batteries need to be produced because replacements are not as likely to be needed.
    3) better for the environment - less used up batteries to dispose of.


    https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...e-battery-tech


    Jim
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    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Interesting indeed, now we just need a million-mile car to go with it. Though electric vehicles are substantially simpler than their gasoline-powered counterparts, so maybe a million-mile car would be possible?

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Interesting indeed, now we just need a million-mile car to go with it. Though electric vehicles are substantially simpler than their gasoline-powered counterparts, so maybe a million-mile car would be possible?

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Asking a lot from a poor motor, aren't you?

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    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Asking a lot from a poor motor, aren't you?
    Well, maybe not!

    Source: Tesla forum

    Elon has stated that in recent times, that the drive units as a whole would last 1,000,000 miles.

    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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    radical strawberry
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    A study was released of that technology that shows that indeed, they have a battery technology that will only lose 10% of its capacity in 1,000,000 miles. That is quite amazing. The interesting thing is that they published sufficient details to allow others to apply the technologies to their own battery production.
    A Wide Range of Testing Results on an Excellent Lithium-Ion Cell Chemistry to be used as Benchmarks for New Battery Technologies

    Open Access, woot!

    And whoa ... stumped already:

    Several different electrolytes are considered in this Li Ni_0.5 Mn_0.3 Co_0.2 O2/graphite chemistry, including those that can promote fast charging.

    Umm, any chemistry buffs out there who can explain fractional stoichiometries to me?

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    radical strawberry
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    If Tesla had been able to ramp up production to meet demand, I'd be driving one now, instead of this Camry hybrid (~45 mpg, personal calculations, mostly highway use in South Florida). I'm at an age now where I've got no reason not to trade-in for new every three years now ... not planning to live forever, ya know ... and Toyota's are famous for holding their value, so that's where I'm at, two years in on this one, looking around.

    Here's the thing ... my new chair picked up a used electric Beamer minivan last year for chump change, which sounded awesome until I asked myself why it was selling so cheap. That says pretty clearly it can't hold any resale value, and it's got to be because the batteries are improving so fast they're obsolete before the next model hits the showroom.

    There's a huge difference between 500k on a battery and 1MM.

    This battery news says wait some more.

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    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    A Wide Range of Testing Results on an Excellent Lithium-Ion Cell Chemistry to be used as Benchmarks for New Battery Technologies

    Open Access, woot!

    And whoa ... stumped already:

    Several different electrolytes are considered in this Li Ni_0.5 Mn_0.3 Co_0.2 O2/graphite chemistry, including those that can promote fast charging.

    Umm, any chemistry buffs out there who can explain fractional stoichiometries to me?
    Just multiply all those fractions by 10 and you'll be set. Just means a complicated crystal structure where some of the atoms are only presence once in a single repeat unit, or a case where multiple forms of a chemical can co-exist under certain conditions.
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

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    radical strawberry
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLurch View Post
    Just multiply all those fractions by 10 and you'll be set. Just means a complicated crystal structure where some of the atoms are only presence once in a single repeat unit, or a case where multiple forms of a chemical can co-exist under certain conditions.
    Thanks, but ... after thinking it over, this still doesn't seem clear. The outer shells of the three fractional constituents, Ni, Mn, and Co, are identical. This means to me they'll have the same bonds, and in the context of a single crystal, as described in the paper, suggests a lattice with equivalent fundamental units ...

    Li Ni O2
    Li Mn O2
    Li Co O2

    ... in the given proportions: 50 percent, 30 percent, 20 percent.

    But I'm not a chemist, and I guess that would yield the "times 10" stoichiometry, and I guess that would coincide with "multiple forms" of the same chemical, but I guess I'm just not comfortable with all the guessing.

    Did you look at the paper?

    Those are some incredibly impressive results, especially so if they're intended for benchmarking.

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    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    Thanks, but ... after thinking it over, this still doesn't seem clear. The outer shells of the three fractional constituents, Ni, Mn, and Co, are identical. This means to me they'll have the same bonds, and in the context of a single crystal, as described in the paper, suggests a lattice with equivalent fundamental units ...
    These are transition metal elements; the outer shell is not always the only one that matters. For example, the most common form of manganese in chemicals is Mn+4. But it can also exist in the +2 state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    Did you look at the paper?

    Those are some incredibly impressive results, especially so if they're intended for benchmarking.
    I had looked at the abstract when the paper was first released, and looked in a bit more detail in response to this. This is a pouch cell, which is very convenient for testing, but doesn't represent something that has all the components of a commercial battery, and may not perform as well when the same chemistry is placed in a form that can be manufactured at scale. I'm also somewhat concerned by the statement "Details of the cells used in this work will be given later, as will a full set of performance data."

    We also run up against the limits of my knowledge in the description of the charge/discharge experiments, as i can't read the experimental description and understand what % charge points they cycled between. Lithium batteries tend to have much higher durability when they aren't charged or discharged fully (so, cycling between, say, 20% and 90% will give much better results than cycling between 5% and 95%).

    So, in sum: potentially quite exciting, but i'd need to talk to someone who knows batteries better than i do before i'd get excited about it.
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

  10. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  11. #10
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Well, maybe not!

    Source: Tesla forum

    Elon has stated that in recent times, that the drive units as a whole would last 1,000,000 miles.

    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    Blessings,
    Lee
    This reminds me of how not all that long ago aircraft manufacturers were insisting that planes could keep flying indefinitely as long as they received proper maintenance. Then you had a couple high profile crashes resulting from things like metal fatigue.

    I'm always still in trouble again

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  12. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.

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