What Exact Crime Is Trump Guilty Of?

[JimL]

Leave it to a liberal to make it about race.

Leave it to a republican to ignore the race issues in the republican party.

[JimL]

Meta, honey, I did your homework -- I provided the cite specifically because I AM interested in the truth, not some pinko commie liberal twisting of it.

Actually you are a supporter and sympathizer of a pinko commie wannabe dictator ala Putin, so if anyone could be defined that way, it would be you, CP, not Meta.

[Mountain Man]

I think this is almost inevitable for any Christian who gets deeply involved with politics regardless of their stance. It causes intense tribalism, which starts to compete with the tribalism Christians should have regarding their faith. It's why I don't think Adrift's argument that Christians should avoid voting altogether is totally insane, even though I'm not convinced.

I think voting is important, perhaps even very important, but certainly not more important than serving God. If politics starts to become like a religion for someone then, yes, perhaps they should refrain in order to reprioritize their life.

Of course the same could be said for anything that gets your priorities out of whack, from video games to food to shopping to arguing on internet forums.

[JimL]

Who should have we voted for Meta? Baby killing Clinton? The left that hates this country, the Constitution and its founding?

Yeah, instead of someone who actually has no concern about abortion, who actually does hate this country, hates democracy, and ignores the law, the Constitution, and its founding.

Let me ask you a hypothetical, seer. Leaving the Constitution out of it, since it's interpretive and can always be amended, if you had only two options, to either live in a free democracy where abortion could be either legal or illegal, depending on the will of the free and democratic people, or in a dictatorship where abortion would always be illegal but dependent on the will of the dictator, which would you choose? Remember,you only have the two options, no alternatives.

[JimL]

What always amazes me, to this day, is the manner in which the hatred of Trump can override the love of Christ in some individuals who call themselves Christians*, that politics gets priority over fellowship.



*and let's be clear, I am NOT challenging their Christianity, but I am wondering about their fellowship.

log meet eye.

[Cow Poke]

log meet eye.

Jimmy, honey, baby darlin' poopsiepie, you are OBSESSED with your hatred of Trump, causing you to make false accusations, tell big 'uns, call names.... CONSUMED. You are becoming Trump Junior.

I, on the other hand, can talk about lots of other things, like the love of Jesus, as well as bacon and ice cream and grand children, and my own daughter returning from slopping hogs to revel in the Joy of the Lord...

[JimL]

Jimmy, honey, baby darlin' poopsiepie,

Are you trying to come out of the closet or what, CP?

you are OBSESSED with your hatred of Trump, causing you to make false accusations, tell big 'uns, call names.... CONSUMED. You are becoming Trump Junior.

You're right about that, CP, and you should be obsessed as well when a wannabe treasonous dictator is in the White House. Of course you helped put him there so it's no surprise that you're not concerned. "

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to sit back and do nothing."

I, on the other hand, can talk about lots of other things, like the love of Jesus, as well as bacon and ice cream and grand children, and my own daughter returning from slopping hogs to revel in the Joy of the Lord...

Well perhaps you should stick to talking about Jesus and bacon then and stop defending an immoral, corrupt, undemocratic, dictator wannabe who is trying, with the aid of Russia, to overthrow your government and undermine democracy around the world.

[Cow Poke]

Are you trying to come out of the closet or what, CP?

If I were, is that a bad thing? Are you a homophobic bigot, as well as and anti-Christian one?

What's clear, JimmyPoo, is that, with practically every post, you're becoming just like the Trump you hate.

[Cow Poke]

Well perhaps you should stick to talking about Jesus and bacon then and stop defending an immoral, corrupt, undemocratic, dictator wannabe who is trying, with the aid of Russia, to overthrow your government and undermine democracy around the world.

Perhaps you should stop being such a pathological liar.

[Jim B.]

Cite the broken laws. We’ll wait.

https://www.vox.com/2019/10/4/208984...llen-weintraub

https://campaignlegal.org/update/yes...-ukraine-favor

But the president's conduct raises much larger issues. Fischer believes that "the fact that the president used the power of his public office for his personal political gain is a matter that should be of immense concern to Congress regardless of whether campaign finance laws might be implicated."

Former FEC counsel Weiner, now with the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University, agrees. He says there are relatively few instances where "we're confronted with a situation that the founders literally anticipated with some specificity."

But Weiner says, this instance could be one "where you actually have the threat of a president asking a foreign government to meddle in our election. So it's much bigger than just campaign finance law if in fact that is what happened."

"I think it is an extraordinary abuse of power. And yes, it's incumbent on Congress to investigate it," said Weiner.

There are actual campaign laws that Trump arguably violated. That's why we need an inquiry. But Impeachment doesn't require violation of an actual criminal statute. The impeachment clause is notoriously vague with only three prior cases as precedent. Impeachment is primarily a political, not a legal, proceeding. When asked what the definition of an impeachable offense was, that wild-eyed liberal Gerald Ford answered "Whatever a majority of the House of Representatives decides it is." Impeachment has to do with violation of the oath of office, of abuse of power, which are not necessarily criminal matters. Trump using the foreign policy apparatus of the country as his own personal oppo research for his own personal political advantage would be clear abuse of power.

[Mountain Man]

Fischer believes that "the fact that the president used the power of his public office for his personal political gain is a matter that should be of immense concern to Congress regardless of whether campaign finance laws might be implicated."

That's not a fact, that's an unproven assumption about the President's motives.

The short version is that the Ukrainian government was so troubled by Biden's dirty deal that they spent almost two-years trying to get the US to look into it, but they were repeatedly stonewalled, first by the US Embassy in Kiev, and later by Federal prosecutors in New York who were given evidence hand delivered by a US attorney who was hired by Ukrainian officials. When that effort failed, the Ukrainian government had concerns about its relationship with the US, so they finally contacted the US State Department who contacted Rudy Giuliani who-- well, you know the rest. (Here's the long version, if you're interested.)

So Trump's motives very well could have simply been a desire to show the Ukrainian government that we are still on good terms and that the US takes their concerns seriously and is showing its good will by supporting and cooperating with the Ukraine's investigative efforts.

But of course it's in liberals' best interests to always assume the worst about Trump, so that's what they're instinctively going to do.

[Sam]

[box]When that effort failed, the Ukrainian government had concerns about its relationship with the US, so they finally contacted the US State Department who contacted Rudy Giuliani who-- well, you know the rest.

Someone might point out the considerable weakness of a story in which the lynchpin is that the State Department decided, on its own accord, turned to ... Rudy Giuliani, who is neither a diplomat, law enforcement official, or even government employee.

--Sam

[firstfloor]

By now, there should be no doubt that Trump will be impeached. It will likely happen in the new year.

[Mountain Man]

Someone might point out the considerable weakness of a story in which the lynchpin is that the State Department decided, on its own accord, turned to ... Rudy Giuliani, who is neither a diplomat, law enforcement official, or even government employee.

--Sam

Read the source I referenced as "the long version". It explains why Giuliani was contacted. And, no, it's not because of any wild eyed conspiracy theory you might be thinking of.

[JimL]

Read the source I referenced as "the long version". It explains why Giuliani was contacted. And, no, it's not because of any wild eyed conspiracy theory you might be thinking of.

It's neither wild eyed or a theory, it was a conspiracy and it involved many people within the administration along with Giuliani. Unfortunately for Trump, there were still 2 or 3 patriotic, principled people in the government with knowledge of the situation that weren't willing to go along with Trumps corrupt ways or to keep quiet about it. They got caught, and then they tried to cover it up. And now he'll be impeached, and if not convicted by the cowardly republican Senate, he'll be booted out of office by the electorate.