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Thread: Definitions: Natural Vs. Supernatural.

  1. #11
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    I have gone around this issue a bit, and I still maintain that the definitions of natural and supernatural are so ambiguous as to be without meaning. Why can't a supernatural universe, for instance, be open to investigate with knowable laws and function? The problem is we have no way to compare these two ideas. Unlike with with most things we define, like a table or chair, there is no objective way to distinguish between supernatural and natural - it is a complete guess.
    Perhaps if you look up the definitions of the two terms you might undersand the difference.

  2. Amen shunyadragon, Tassman amen'd this post.
  3. #12
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    But that is my point Adrift - they have no objective justification for their position. The distinction is arbitrary, philosophical.
    No. YOU have no “objective justification” for your position, it is based upon the unevidenced assumption of an intelligent creative force.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  4. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.
  5. #13
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Perhaps if you look up the definitions of the two terms you might undersand the difference.
    I have Jim, so how do you know the definition are correct? Based on what?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  6. #14
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    No. YOU have no “objective justification” for your position, it is based upon the unevidenced assumption of an intelligent creative force.
    Tass, if you are not going to play well stay out of my thread...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  7. #15
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    I have Jim, so how do you know the definition are correct? Based on what?
    Because we are the definers of things.

  8. #16
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Because we are the definers of things.
    And we defined them right? How do you know?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  9. #17
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    And we defined them right? How do you know?
    Definitions can't be right or wrong. They can be useful or useless. A definition just means that you've explained what a term is well enough that others can utilize it to identify the same concept.

    We can define a word 'brick', which refers to english tea in a mug. That's a definition. Its just not a useful definition.

    We define the temperature scale by setting the triple point of water as being precisely 273.16 K and the temperature at which the random kinetic motion of atoms and molecules has ceased to be 0K. That's a very useful definition, and is how all temperature scales are defined in as much as celcius or fahrenheit are defined only as conversions from the Kelvin scale.

    Etc...

    God, seeing the true essence of everything, has no need of definition. He percieves as things are.
    Last edited by Leonhard; 10-01-2019 at 10:38 AM.

  10. #18
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Definitions can't be right or wrong. They can be useful or useless. A definition just means that you've explained what a term is well enough that others can utilize it to identify the same concept.

    We can define a word 'brick', which refers to english tea in a mug. That's a definition. Its just not a useful definition.
    My point is the definitions of supernatural/nature are completely arbitrary, there is no way to objectively distinguish between the two without begging the question.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  11. #19
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    My point is the definitions of supernatural/nature are completely arbitrary,
    Are they completely arbitrary? If you mean simply that we humans have made up that distinction, that's true, but that's also trivially obvious because that's true of all words. The only question left is whether it is a useful or useless distinction.

  12. Amen Adrift, KingsGambit amen'd this post.
  13. #20
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Are they completely arbitrary? If you mean simply that we humans have made up that distinction, that's true, but that's also trivially obvious because that's true of all words. The only question left is whether it is a useful or useless distinction.
    Except if we name a "rock" we have something objective to refer to. If someone points to a "chair" and says that is a "rock" - we say, well no. When we say supernatural what are we objectively referencing? We don't know. If we say this universal is natural - what does that men? In other words we really have no way to compare the natural with supernatural - to contrast the two.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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