Trump suggests civil war should he be Impeached.

[oxmixmudd]

Military aid was not even brought up in the conversation. That's the context you wish was there. It isn't. It's like Stretch Armstrong with you lot....

Again, how can you be so naive. A fellow says he's inclined to give ne a million dollars. 2 weeks later he calls and asks me to pick up his kids from school.

I'm going to feel free to say no?

Jim

[rogue06]

Military aid was not even brought up in the conversation. That's the context you wish was there. It isn't. It's like Stretch Armstrong with you lot....

And given that according to the New York Times it looks like that nobody in Kiev including Zelensky knew that there was any hold up on military aid and didn't become aware that there had been one until over a month after the conversation.

Obviously if any quid pro quo was in place for the aid then Zelensky would have to know about it. After all, leverage can only work when both sides know that one of them has and is using it.

[Charles]

Again, how can you be so naive. A fellow says he's inclined to give ne a million dollars. 2 weeks later he calls and asks me to pick up his kids from school.

I'm going to feel free to say no?

Jim

I think we have come to the point where the claim is going to be that he did not call you or that he did not ask you to pick up his kids. Like the claim that "Military aid was not even brought up in the conversation" when anyone can see that this statement was made: "I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost. ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes."

[Mountain Man]

Now turning to the content of the conversation you claim there is no talk of military aid. President Zelenskyy said:

Empasis mine.

You can emphasize whatever you want in the transcript. That doesn't prove that Trump and Zelensky intended it or understood it with whatever emphasis you're assuming. That's just begging question.

[NorrinRadd]

I'm fascinated by the implication that dogs hear in cursive.

Except for their own names, which they hear in... um... non-cursive, but all caps.

[Charles]

You can emphasize whatever you want in the transcript. That doesn't prove that Trump and Zelensky intended it or understood it with whatever emphasis you're assuming. That's just begging question.

The claim was that there was no talk about military aid.... I showed that there was. For you to think you can dismiss that point by a false statement about it being question begging is naive. Why don't you give your interpretation instead?

[oxmixmudd]

You can emphasize whatever you want in the transcript. That doesn't prove that Trump and Zelensky intended it or understood it with whatever emphasis you're assuming. That's just begging question.

Zelenski expressed concern to a senator that NOT getting the money was related to NOT investigating Biden. He understood what Trump was after perfectly. Just like you do even though you keep pretending you don't.

Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

Zelenski expressed concern to a senator that NOT getting the money was related to NOT investigating Biden. He understood what Trump was after perfectly. Just like you do even though you keep pretending you don't.

Jim

So now you’re claiming that Ukraine officials lied on sworn affidavits? Do you have any actual evidence to support this assertion or support the implication? Last I checked, implication was not evidence accepted in a court of law. Your tin foil hat is showing again as you want the Constitution ignored, all for your petty ‘get Trump at any cost’ vendetta.

[Mountain Man]

Zelenski expressed concern to a senator that NOT getting the money was related to NOT investigating Biden.

Source?

Because the only on-the-record statement I've seen from Zelensky says that he felt no pressure, and in fact seemed insulted at the very suggestion.

"Nobody can put pressure on me because I am the president of an independent state."

[...]

"We can talk about support. Asking is definitely not about Ukraine. Ukraine is a new, strong country, asking nothing from anyone. We, ourselves, can help someone."

https://www.unian.info/politics/1069...ith-trump.html

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko expressed these same sentiments, again, talking on the record.

[One Bad Pig]

Let's look at the quote again:

Empasis mine.

So not only are you confusing the concepts of content and context, you are also starting to claim that when someone talks about what IS or the "next steps" it refers to what was prior. I have no idea why anyone would make statements that are so easily proven to be wrong.

Let's look at the quote once more:

Source: Zelenskyy

It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost. ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

© Copyright Original Source

Everything in bold refers to prior support. Even the second bit you put in bold indirectly refers to prior support, because he's talking about buying MORE Javelins.

Troll harder, bro.

[JimL]

Source?

Because the only on-the-record statement I've seen from Zelensky says that he felt no pressure, and in fact seemed insulted at the very suggestion.

"Nobody can put pressure on me because I am the president of an independent state."

[...]

"We can talk about support. Asking is definitely not about Ukraine. Ukraine is a new, strong country, asking nothing from anyone. We, ourselves, can help someone."

https://www.unian.info/politics/1069...ith-trump.html

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko expressed these same sentiments, again, talking on the record.

It was Senator Murphy of Connetticut who I believe visited Zelensky in late August, early September, and said that Zelenskt was concerned that Trump was holding up the military aid due to Zelensky's refusal at the time to investigate the Biden thing. It seems they were also pressured not to cooperate with the Mueller investigation.

[Mountain Man]

Even the second bit you put in bold indirectly refers to prior support, because he's talking about buying MORE Javelins.

And since he's talking about buying them, it suggests a business transaction and not a request for aid.

[oxmixmudd]

Source?

Because the only on-the-record statement I've seen from Zelensky says that he felt no pressure, and in fact seemed insulted at the very suggestion.

"Nobody can put pressure on me because I am the president of an independent state."

[...]

"We can talk about support. Asking is definitely not about Ukraine. Ukraine is a new, strong country, asking nothing from anyone. We, ourselves, can help someone."

https://www.unian.info/politics/1069...ith-trump.html

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko expressed these same sentiments, again, talking on the record.

We've been over that. You realize you are taking on the persona of the criminal that knows he did the crime but who also thinks the 'cops' don't have any 'dirt' on them - yes?

It apparently was not Zelensky himself expressing the concern to senators, but rather officials from their government. The following can put that into a bit better perspective:

from https://www.axios.com/zelensky-ukrai...77fc4025a.html

Source: above

A former adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky told ABC News on Wednesday that President Trump's desire for the two leaders to discuss a possible investigation into Joe Biden was a precondition for their now-infamous July 25 phone call.

"It was clear that Trump will only have communications if they will discuss the Biden case. This issue was raised many times. I know that Ukrainian officials understood."
— Serhiy Leshchenko

© Copyright Original Source

Which also confirms my belief Zelenski's comments you quoted are false, just trying to appease the 'Mob Boss'.

from https://www.wsj.com/articles/preside...ce-11569254230

Source: above

Ukrainian officials earlier this month expressed concern to U.S. senators that the aid had been held up as a penalty for resisting that pressure. “They worried the aid that was being cut off to Ukraine by the president was a consequence for their unwillingness at the time to investigate the Bidens,” said Sen. Chris Murphy (D., Conn.), who earlier this month met in Ukraine with Mr. Zelensky and other officials.

© Copyright Original Source

Jim

[Mountain Man]

It was Senator Murphy of Connetticut who I believe visited Zelensky in late August, early September, and said that Zelenskt was concerned that Trump was holding up the military aid due to Zelensky's refusal at the time to investigate the Biden thing. It seems they were also pressured not to cooperate with the Mueller investigation.

Right... a Democrat senator telling us what he supposedly heard Zelensky say, versus what Zelensky actually said for himself on the record.

[oxmixmudd]

And since he's talking about buying them, it suggests a business transaction and not a request for aid.

Obviously not, since the money he will use to buy them was money promised by the US and required in order to defend themselves against the Russians.



Jim