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Thread: Why doesn't Revelation show three horns being defeated

  1. #31
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    I feel like the obsession with "virginity" is probably a clue.

    1 Timothy 4:1-3
    Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

    1 Corinthians 7:9
    But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

  2. #32
    tWebber eschaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    I feel like the obsession with "virginity" is probably a clue.

    1 Timothy 4:1-3
    Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

    1 Corinthians 7:9
    But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
    Maybe we should count Revelation and Paul among the mystery religions.

    Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

    1Co 7:25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
    1Co 7:26 I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.

    2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

  3. #33
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    The devil can cite scripture for his purpose

  4. #34
    tWebber eschaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    The devil can cite scripture for his purpose
    I was following your example. BTW, marriage and virginity aren't exactly the same thing.

  5. #35
    tWebber AlphaBravo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    I agree with JP Holdings' analysis of the Beast of Dan:




    This is by far the best historical interpretation and less contrived I've seen thus far (though I don't agree with all his interpretation of Daniel).
    SeanD, I basically agree with this general approach; however, I think if you are going to count the second triumvirate as one of the heads of the beast then you are left asking why the first triumvirate was not included. Both were struggles for primacy or succession. Also the triumvirates were majority rule "democracies" of 3 and not really monarchies.

    Anyway my point is to ask: what problems does this approach solve that are not solved more simply by counting emperors to Titus as the 11th. Either way we have Galba, Otho, and Vitellius uprooted to explain the absence of these three in the Revelation account.

    Peace.

  6. #36
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

    Clearly, these above ten horns do not represent Julius Caesar et cetera. So unless you want to say that Daniel's ten horns are different from Revelation's ten horns (as Sean said), then the emperors are not the ten horns.

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    tWebber AlphaBravo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

    Clearly, these above ten horns do not represent Julius Caesar et cetera. So unless you want to say that Daniel's ten horns are different from Revelation's ten horns (as Sean said), then the emperors are not the ten horns.
    Yes. I never really thought about it until your post.

    I take the horns in Daniel to be the Caesars of Rome ending at Titus as the 11th, so in this case the beast itself is the Roman Empire. Three are uprooted in the presence of the 11th leaving 8 horns. Daniel sees this 11th horn, presumably as the head of this now 8 horned beast, make war with the saints.

    I take the heads of the sea beast in Revelation to represent Caesars with Nero being the sixth (and current at the time of the vision John says), Vespasian the soon to come 7th, and Titus, who as the beast itself, is actually an 8th. John sees the beast as it appears coming against Jerusalem and so in that case three of the heads have already been rooted up (Galba/Otho/Vitellius) and are no longer present in the beast.

    The horns on the sea beast in Revelation are the client states/kings listed by Josephus who supported the legions of Titus as auxiliaries against the Jews.

    Also, do we really know how many heads the fourth beast in Daniel has? I wonder if it is more clear in the original language.
    Last edited by AlphaBravo; 12-17-2014 at 02:29 PM. Reason: clarity, added quote, more clarity :p

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