Trump now openly asks China for help in the 2020 election

[rogue06]

"All these investigations into Trump based on credible allegations, complaints, and investigative reports are witch hunts! Witch hunts!"

"We must investigate Joe Biden, given the appearance of impropriety, with or without predicating evidence!"



If nothing else, at least everyone can see there's no bottom here, no principle in action except destruction of one's enemies.


-Sam

Interesting response to someone pointing out that someone is innocent until proven guilty

[rogue06]

"Trump is guilty! We just have conduct endless investigations to figure out what he's guilty of! "

The Pelosi-Waters school of thought.

[Sam]

Interesting response to someone pointing out that someone is innocent until proven guilty

It is an effort to deflect the clear hypocrisy at work, and a poor effort at that. "Innocent until proven guilty" has no relevance to the point that was made.

Was a time you'd be on the side of pointing that out to such Jorge-esque characters, too.

--Sam

[demi-conservative]

I have never heard that mentality attributed to the Mueller investigation.

Republicans, never: "Oh, you're investigating Trump's secret ties to Russian oligarchs and government liaisons? Go right ahead, nothing to see there."

See, you can do the 'tu quoque' too. Where's KingsGambit?

[Sam]

See, you can do the 'tu quoque' too. Where's KingsGambit?

When one's own wrongdoing is deflected by arguing that the other side does it to, that's tu quoque.

When one points out that an argument is preposterously hypocritical, and therefore being delivered in ignorance or bad faith, that's not tu quoque.

When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's amore.

--Sam

[demi-conservative]

When one's own wrongdoing is deflected by arguing that the other side does it to, that's tu quoque.

When one points out that an argument is preposterously hypocritical, and therefore being delivered in ignorance or bad faith, that's not tu quoque.

When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's amore.

--Sam

When you start hysterics again that 'Orange Man Bad' and 'this time he's going down, really', that's Nemesis to your Hubris. TDS is judgment for your arrogance, enjoy.

[Tassman]

When you start hysterics again that 'Orange Man Bad' and 'this time he's going down, really', that's Nemesis to your Hubris. TDS is judgment for your arrogance, enjoy.

Interesting that over 60% of the population suffers from your so-called TDS.

[mikewhitney]

"All these investigations into Trump based on credible allegations, complaints, and investigative reports are witch hunts! Witch hunts!"

"We must investigate Joe Biden, given the appearance of impropriety, with or without predicating evidence!"



If nothing else, at least everyone can see there's no bottom here, no principle in action except destruction of one's enemies.


-Sam

Biden is on video saying he withheld monies (guarantees) from the Urkaine until they got rid of a prosecutor investigating the company where Biden's son had a high paying job. But the Dems in Congress don't see this as evidence.

[Tassman]

Biden is on video saying he withheld monies (guarantees) from the Urkaine until they got rid of a prosecutor investigating the company where Biden's son had a high paying job. But the Dems in Congress don't see this as evidence.

It's not evidence against Biden. It wasn't because the prosecutor in question was investigating a natural gas company tied to Biden's son; it was because he wasn't pursuing corruption among the country's politicians, according to a Ukrainian official and four former American officials who specialized in Ukraine and Europe. This prosecutor's inaction prompted international calls for his ouster and ultimately resulted in his removal by Ukraine's parliament.

[oxmixmudd]

Biden is on video saying he withheld monies (guarantees) from the Urkaine until they got rid of a prosecutor investigating the company where Biden's son had a high paying job. But the Dems in Congress don't see this as evidence.

It isn't. For reasons already discussed. Your statement is spin, and not accurate at that. Biden bragged about getting rid of one of the most corrupt influences in Ukraine. He had every reason to be proud of having been part of that.

Jim

[JimL]

That assumes Biden is going to be his opponent, which is unlikely and getting more improbable every day.

Good. I like Biden, but Warren is far superior in her understanding of government and the monied corruption that has infiltrated it more and more over time, and unlike the unprincipled con man Trump, with his false words, who actually swins in the swamp he claimed he'd drain, the principled Warren will not just try to work within the corrupt system, as I fear Biden would do, she'll do everything in her power to actually clean it up. That's why the corrupt party, which the republicans have become, are beginning to fear her so much.

[Mountain Man]

Biden bragged about getting rid of one of the most corrupt influences in Ukraine.

That's the liberal narrative, at any rate, but I still haven't seen any evidence proving that he was actually corrupt. If he was so bad then why has he never been investigated or charged with a crime?

[Sam]

Biden is on video saying he withheld monies (guarantees) from the Urkaine until they got rid of a prosecutor investigating the company where Biden's son had a high paying job. But the Dems in Congress don't see this as evidence.

Shokin had "closed" the investigation into Burisma soon after "opening" it in 2014; it seems to have been a routine exercise in corruption for the prosecutor. Open an investigation into a rich, possibly corrupt, oligarch and then shake them down in exchange for "closing" the file. Shokin's deputy prosecutor, who resigned over Shokin's corruption, has said that the investigation into Burisma was dormant well before Biden flew to Ukraine in 2016.

Indeed, Biden's trip was part of an international effort to oust Shokin for impeding an investigation into Burisma's oligarch owner, Mykola Zlochevsky, in the United Kingdom. If Biden was trying to protect his son from investigation, it's a pretty weird strategy to push for the termination of the prosecutor who has twice protected Burisma from real investigation.

So the "evidence" that Biden acted corruptly is not only highly circumstantial but rebutted by other contemporaneous evidence and numerous waves of investigative journalism.

Contrast that with Trump's tax-dodging or Trump's contacts and secret business dealings with members of the Russian government or Trump's obstruction of justice or Trump's record of sexual assault or ...

--Sam

[Mountain Man]

Shokin had "closed" the investigation into Burisma soon after "opening" it in 2014...

False.

The controversy ignited anew earlier this year when I disclosed that Joe Biden admitted during a 2018 videotaped speech that, as vice president in March 2016, he threatened to cancel $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees, to pressure Ukraine’s then-President Petro Poroshenko to fire Shokin.

At the time, Shokin’s office was investigating Burisma. Shokin told me he was making plans to question Hunter Biden about $3 million in fees that Biden and his partner, Archer, collected from Burisma through their American firm. Documents seized by the FBI in an unrelated case confirm the payments, which in many months totaled more than $166,000.

Some media outlets have reported that, at the time Joe Biden forced the firing in March 2016, there were no open investigations. Those reports are wrong. A British-based investigation of Burisma's owner was closed down in early 2015 on a technicality when a deadline for documents was not met. But the Ukraine Prosecutor General's office still had two open inquiries in March 2016, according to the official case file provided me. One of those cases involved taxes; the other, allegations of corruption. Burisma announced the cases against it were not closed and settled until January 2017.

[...]

In a newly sworn affidavit prepared for a European court, Shokin testified that when he was fired in March 2016, he was told the reason was that Biden was unhappy about the Burisma investigation. “The truth is that I was forced out because I was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings, a natural gas firm active in Ukraine and Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, was a member of the Board of Directors,” Shokin testified.

“On several occasions President Poroshenko asked me to have a look at the case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company but I refused to close this investigation,” Shokin added.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...wYDEV8.twitter

[Juvenal]

Biden is on video saying he withheld monies (guarantees) from the Urkaine ...

True. But they don't want to be called "the" Ukraine, anymore, as it signifies they're a geographical area, not the independent country, Ukraine.

... until they got rid of a prosecutor investigating the company where Biden's son had a high paying job.

False. He was fired for failing to investigating Burisma, or any of the other oligarch-run organizations that prospered under Yanukovych's Russian-aligned presidency. It's also significant that the Obama administration was outspoken against the corruption in Ukraine, singling out Zlochevsky directly.

We applaud the work of the newly-established Inspector General’s office in the PGO* led by David Sakvarelidze and Vitaliy Kasko. Their investigations into corruption within the PGO, have delivered important arrests and have sent the signal that those who abuse their official positions as prosecutors will be investigated and prosecuted.

I encourage all of you to speak up in support of these brave investigators and prosecutors. Give them the resources and support to successfully prosecute these and future cases.

We have learned that there have been times that the PGO not only did not support investigations into corruption, but rather undermined prosecutors working on legitimate corruption cases.

For example, in the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky, the U.K. authorities had seized 23 million dollars in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people. Officials at the PGO’s office were asked by the U.K to send documents supporting the seizure.

Instead they sent letters to Zlochevsky’s attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a result the money was freed by the U.K. court and shortly thereafter the money was moved to Cyprus.

The misconduct by the PGO officials who wrote those letters should be investigated, and those responsible for subverting the case by authorizing those letters should – at a minimum – be summarily terminated.

Even as we support the work of the new Anti-Corruption Commission, and the recruitment of new prosecutors, we have urged Prosecutor General Shokin to empower Deputy Prosecutors Sakvarelidze and Kasko to implement reforms and bring to justice those who have violated the law, regardless of rank or status. We are prepared to partner with reformers within the PGO in the fight for anticorruption.

* Prosecutor General's Office, then led by Shokin.

But the Dems in Congress don't see this as evidence.

They do see it as a conspiracy theory, though, so they're well ahead on the game in comparison to their partisan opponents.