Volkers texts make it clear the investigation was a precondition

[lilpixieofterror]

The point is that Sonderland understands what a quid pro quo entails.

I find it funny that the defense of Trump ("Did you actually HEAR him say it?") is lifted pretty much straight out of Godfather II.

--Sam

[Sam]

No, that's a pretty literal and obvious quid pro quo when a man with lots of money but no diplomatic experience donates $1m to a political campaign and gets placed as ambassador to the EU. A person looks mighty silly arguing that such a situation is a matter of opinion.



We already have a substantial chain of evidence linking Trump to Giuliani to this effort. Not least because Giuliani said he was doing it for "his client's" campaign back in May.

Again, you have to turn your brain completely off to dismiss this. And while I understand that's the opening price for the anti-anti crowd when it comes to Trump, one would expect there to be limits.

--Sam

[lilpixieofterror]

No, that's a pretty literal and obvious quid pro quo when a man with lots of money but no diplomatic experience donates $1m to a political campaign and gets placed as ambassador to the EU. A person looks mighty silly arguing that such a situation is a matter of opinion.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y-jobs-rewards

We already have a substantial chain of evidence linking Trump to Giuliani to this effort. Not least because Giuliani said he was doing it for "his client's" campaign back in May.

Again, you have to turn your brain completely off to dismiss this. And while I understand that's the opening price for the anti-anti crowd when it comes to Trump, one would expect there to be limits.

--Sam

[seer]

All the spin from the diehard TWEB Trump supporters is moot. Volker's texts make it clear Trump was all about withholding aid, conversations, and visits over the issue of Ukraine investigating issues associated with 2016 and Burisma (biden).

Consider this text on the day of the call:

Volker: Good Lunch, Thanks! Heard from white house, Assuming President Z convinces Trump he will investigate/"get to the bottom of what happened in 2016" we will nail down date for visit to Washington. Good luck, see you Tomorrow, kurt

and BEFORE the call:

Had breakfast with Rudy this morning - teeing up call with Yermak monday. Must have helped. Most important is for Zelensky to say he will help with investigation - and address any personnel issues - if there are any

Note that later (8/10) he calls for a REBOOT of US/UKraine relations and mentions investigation of Burisma specifically

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/polit...ker/index.html



Jim

So Jim was it illegal for Biden to threaten to withhold funds if they didn't fire the prosecutor?

[Sam]

I've been plenty vocal about ending paid ambassadorships and recognize them to be a frequent and bi-partisan quid pro quo. I agree with Warren's push to ban them.

But that's the not the quid pro quo that's being identified here as beyond the pale; Sonderland knows what a quid pro quo is because he paid for his ambassadorship but the quid pro quo that is unprecedented and impeachable is Trump's exchange of political "favors" to a foreign government in exchange for incriminating his political opponents.

When you operate on a knee-jerk, information-deprived "punch back" strategy, you quickly lose the ability to keep the story straight.

--Sam

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y-jobs-rewards

[lilpixieofterror]

I've been plenty vocal about ending paid ambassadorships and recognize them to be a frequent and bi-partisan quid pro quo. I agree with Warren's push to ban them.

Lots of people make promises, few deliver.

But that's the not the quid pro quo that's being identified here as beyond the pale; Sonderland knows what a quid pro quo is because he paid for his ambassadorship but the quid pro quo that is unprecedented and impeachable is Trump's exchange of political "favors" to a foreign government in exchange for incriminating his political opponents.

When you operate on a knee-jerk, information-deprived "punch back" strategy, you quickly lose the ability to keep the story straight.

--Sam

[Mountain Man]

So Jim was it illegal for Biden to threaten to withhold funds if they didn't fire the prosecutor?

Of course it wasn't illegal! But only because the persecutor was accused of but never proven to be corrupt.

The fact that it also happened to protect Joe's son from an uncomfortable criminal investigation into his suspiciously highly paid board position is a complete coincidence. No, really.

[oxmixmudd]

So Jim was it illegal for Biden to threaten to withhold funds if they didn't fire the prosecutor?

No, not under those circumstances. Because in that case the request was at the behest of both the US and European governments and was targeting the removal of a major source of corruption in Ukraine's government


Jim

[Sam]

I don't think you understand how such contemporaneous material evidence is utilized in court to establish corrupt behavior.

And, for fun, here's Senator Ron Johnson blurting out that Sonderland, who is featured in the exchanges above and talking about POTUS deliverables, told him that aid was conditioned on Ukraine investigating specific cases, not just generally cleaning up corruption (which Trump doesn't care about when it comes to supplying arms to, say, Saudi Arabia).

This guy is lucky that OLC opinion is protecting him because this stuff makes a prosecutor's job much easier.

--Sam

[lilpixieofterror]

I don't think you understand how such contemporaneous material evidence is utilized in court to establish corrupt behavior.

And, for fun, here's Senator Ron Johnson blurting out that Sonderland, who is featured in the exchanges above and talking about POTUS deliverables, told him that aid was conditioned on Ukraine investigating specific cases, not just generally cleaning up corruption (which Trump doesn't care about when it comes to supplying arms to, say, Saudi Arabia).

This guy is lucky that OLC opinion is protecting him because this stuff makes a prosecutor's job much easier.

--Sam

https://thefederalist.com/2019/10/04...ent-narrative/

[Sam]

https://thefederalist.com/2019/10/04...ent-narrative/

Maybe you should actually read the documents. Specifically, how Ukraine was to investigate "Burisma".

And I never imagined you were dumb. That, unfortunately, is not what these displays of selective outrage and excuse are about. It's about winning, the cost to principle and character be damned.

--Sam

[lilpixieofterror]

Maybe you should actually read the documents. Specifically, how Ukraine was to investigate "Burisma".

And I never imagined you were dumb. That, unfortunately, is not what these displays of selective outrage and excuse are about. It's about winning, the cost to principle and character be damned.

--Sam

[Mountain Man]

Hmmm...

[A]t no time was I aware of or took part in an effort to urge Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Biden. As you will see from the extensive text messages I am providing, which convey a sense of real-time dialogue with several different actors, Vice President Biden was never a topic of discussion.

Volker even defended Biden against accusations of Ukraine-linked corruption, saying:

I have known former Vice President Biden for 24 years, and the suggestion that he would be influenced in his duties as Vice President by money for his son simply has no credibility to me. I know him as a man of integrity and dedication to our country.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...be-into-biden/

[Sam]

One has to be mighty naive to imagine that Volker would walk into HCSPI and say "Well of course we were doing crimes". That he characterizes his activity as trying to mitigate Giulani's influence is not particularly news. Nor does it throw the texts into new light: discussing the draft Ukranian statement with Sonderland, Volker specifically outlines that the statement should include investigations of Burisma and the 2016 US elections. Whether or not Volker wants to say that he was helping direct an investigation into Biden and Clinton/DNC in exchange for a WH meeting and military funding, the texts are explicit proof that's what he was doing.

And even the most partisan hackery can't undo that.

--Sam

Hmmm...

[A]t no time was I aware of or took part in an effort to urge Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Biden. As you will see from the extensive text messages I am providing, which convey a sense of real-time dialogue with several different actors, Vice President Biden was never a topic of discussion.

Volker even defended Biden against accusations of Ukraine-linked corruption, saying:

I have known former Vice President Biden for 24 years, and the suggestion that he would be influenced in his duties as Vice President by money for his son simply has no credibility to me. I know him as a man of integrity and dedication to our country.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...be-into-biden/

[Sam]

Was wondering about this. I'm sure sticklers for retention of government correspondence will be outraged beyond measure:

Source: Holding Ukraine hostage: How the president and his allies, chasing 2020 ammunition, fanned a political storm. Greg Miller,Paul Sonne, Greg Jaffe and Michael Birnbaum. The Washington Post. 2019.10.04

Rather than official State Department email, the text exchanges between the diplomats took place over WhatsApp, a U.S. official said.

© Copyright Original Source

Emphasis added

--Sam