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Thread: Impeachment Process - Read OP Before Posting

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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Impeachment Process - Read OP Before Posting

    Sam, you are not welcome here.

    This is not a political debate thread. It is strictly for the boring, dry procedural issues with impeachment. Which is complicated by the political implications so try the best you can to stay on topic if you post.

    DO NOT post about the current impeachment - not even as comparison. I want to examine just the process - admittedly to gauge the veracity of a multitude of assertions - just not here.



    So, starting at the beginning:


    U.S. Constitution - Article 2 Section 4




    Article 2 - The Executive Branch
    Section 4 - Disqualification


    The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

    Source




    Article 1, Section 3, Clauses 4 & 5
    6: The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
    7: Judgment in Cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.


    Source



    Article 1, Section 2, Clause 5
    5: The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.




    Source




    Article 3, Section 2, Clause 3*


    3: The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.


    Source

    *included because it establishes impeachment as a criminal trial - which is a big duh, it ain't civil, but there has been some question.

    [For reference, treason is defined in Article 3].




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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Source: FindLaw


    Both the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate have the right to make their own rules governing their procedure, and to change those rules. Under current rules, the actual impeachment inquiry begins in the Judiciary Committee of the House of Representatives. That Committee holds hearings, takes evidence, and hears testimony of witnesses concerning matters relevant to the inquiry. Typically, as occurred in the case of President Nixon, there will also be a Minority Counsel who serves the interest of the party not controlling Congress.
    Witnesses are interrogated by the Committee Counsel, the Minority Counsel, and each of the members of the House Judiciary Committee. The Committee formulates Articles of Impeachment which could contain multiple counts. The Committee votes on the Articles of Impeachment and the results of the vote are reported to the House as a whole. The matter is then referred to the whole House which debates the matter and votes on the Articles of Impeachment, which may or may not be changed. If the Articles of Impeachment are approved, the matter is sent to the Senate for trial

    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    Decent article for overview.

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    US House of Representatives

    Still looking for House Rules proper.

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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Rules for the 114th House of Representatives

    Wiki seems to think the 115th is governed by basically the same rules - trying to confirm that now.

    Then I need to start on the statutory stuff...

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    tWebber MaxVel's Avatar
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    Great thread, Teallaura.


    PS: For the longest time I read your user name as 'Tell Laura'. I feel kind of blue about that mistake.
    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Sam, you are not welcome here.

    This is not a political debate thread. It is strictly for the boring, dry procedural issues with impeachment. Which is complicated by the political implications so try the best you can to stay on topic if you post.

    DO NOT post about the current impeachment - not even as comparison. I want to examine just the process - admittedly to gauge the veracity of a multitude of assertions - just not here.



    So, starting at the beginning:


    U.S. Constitution - Article 2 Section 4

    [FONT="][/FONT]
    [FONT="][/FONT]
    [FONT="][/FONT]
    Article 2 - The Executive Branch
    Section 4 - Disqualification


    [FONT="]The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]
    Source




    Article 1, Section 3, Clauses 4 & 5
    [FONT="]6: The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]7: Judgment in Cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.[/FONT]


    Source



    Article 1, Section 2, Clause 5
    [FONT="]5: [/FONT][FONT="]The House of Representatives shall [/FONT]chuse[FONT="] their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of [/FONT]Impeachment[FONT="].[/FONT]




    Source




    Article 3, Section 2, Clause 3*


    [FONT="]3: [/FONT][FONT="]The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of [/FONT]Impeachment[FONT="], shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.[/FONT]


    Source

    *included because it establishes impeachment as a criminal trial - which is a big duh, it ain't civil, but there has been some question.

    [For reference, treason is defined in Article 3].



    [/FONT]
    An issue of contention brought up by MM, and argued by the President, was that the investigation and issuence of subpoena's by this House was unconstitutional because they haven't taken a vote.. That the House by rule of law must take a vote before they can proceed with an impeachment investigation or inquiry. But, there is nothing either explicit or implied in the Constitution as to how the House must conduct it's procedings.

    Article 1 Section 2 clause 5 as depicted in your post shows that: "the House has the sole power of impeachment" In other words the rules and procedures are up to the House to decide, not codified in law.

    And

    Article 1 Section 5 Clause 2 affirms that understanding: "Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings.

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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    An issue of contention brought up by MM, and argued by the President, was that the investigation and issuence of subpoena's by this House was unconstitutional because they haven't taken a vote.. That the House by rule of law must take a vote before they can proceed with an impeachment investigation or inquiry. But, there is nothing either explicit or implied in the Constitution as to how the House must conduct it's procedings.

    Article 1 Section 2 clause 5 as depicted in your post shows that: "the House has the sole power of impeachment" In other words the rules and procedures are up to the House to decide, not codified in law.

    And

    Article 1 Section 5 Clause 2 affirms that understanding: "Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings.
    Yeah - remember I don't want to debate the current impeachment here, but what MM is talking about is in the statutory stuff that I haven't gotten to yet. Some House procedings are codified into law and not just House rules - I still have to track that down. But you're correct that it isn't specified in the Constitution.

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    tWebber
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    It has been suggested that starting an actual impeachment would also allow the minority in the House to have subpoena power, and that that's why the Dems are refraining. Is this an actual law or rule?
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    It has been suggested that starting an actual impeachment would also allow the minority in the House to have subpoena power, and that that's why the Dems are refraining. Is this an actual law or rule?
    I'm still checking into it.

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