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Elizabeth Warren's Pregnant Pause
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"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYou inspired me ... I mean whoever did it .... to change the thread title!
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Originally posted by Juvenal View PostSo with that issue cleared up, and taking on board the additional information that NJ required an "automatic resignation" for women teaching when they reach their fifth month of pregnancy, what is it you find troubling about Warren's reference to how that policy impacted her personally?
I'm not seeing anything wrong with that.
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Originally posted by Juvenal View PostTo be more clear, while the policy did affect her personally, I'm not seeing evidence that she took it personally. "... did what principals did at the time ..." says she didn't even blame the principal, personally. To me, the decades-later references in her interviews and now her stump speeches show an evolution from accepting the policy at the time to an awareness that the policy was always wrong, as is generally acknowledged today.
I'm not seeing anything wrong with that.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostUm... no. My assumption are based on Warren's own statements. She quite clearly lied because her story from 2007 is irreconcilable with her story in 2019. The only question is whether she was lying then, or lying now, and since she has more reason to lie now, that's where I'm putting my money.
That's ridiculously harsh.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Juvenal View PostSo with that issue cleared up, and taking on board the additional information that NJ required an "automatic resignation" for women teaching when they reach their fifth month of pregnancy, what is it you find troubling about Warren's reference to how that policy impacted her personally?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Roy View PostSo if two statements are irreconcilable, that's a lie, even if made more than a decade apart? No allowance made for error or misremembering or context or even subsequent corrections?
That's ridiculously harsh.
That condition is consistent with lying, not making a mistake.Last edited by Teallaura; 10-09-2019, 07:19 AM."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Roy View PostSo if two statements are irreconcilable, that's a lie, even if made more than a decade apart? No allowance made for error or misremembering or context or even subsequent corrections?
That's ridiculously harsh.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 10-09-2019, 08:03 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Juvenal View PostTo be more clear, while the policy did affect her personally, I'm not seeing evidence that she took it personally. "... did what principals did at the time ..." says she didn't even blame the principal, personally. To me, the decades-later references in her interviews and now her stump speeches show an evolution from accepting the policy at the time to an awareness that the policy was always wrong, as is generally acknowledged today.
I'm not seeing anything wrong with that.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI have one rather major event in my life I never understood was wrong until I was in my 40's. I tell that story very differently now than when I was 30.
JimThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostBoth statements are decades removed from the event - error and recalling incorrectly defy credulity. Were either the case, the 2007 and 2019 statements should agree with each other and differ with the reality of what happened in 1971. Instead, the statements conflict and the undisputed facts of the event aren't in conflict with either statement.
That condition is consistent with lying, not making a mistake.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThat she has a flair for embellishment and inconsistency. But that's OK - Run Liz, Run!
Oh, and just by the way, you're wrong about that, too, but I'm okay with letting you wear your hat the way that suits you, and willing to tolerate your belief that it's not okay for me to wear mine the way it suits me. Not pleased, you understand, but willing, in the interest of maintaining civility. Still, it would be better if I didn't have to bend over backwards for you on that.
Anyhoo ...
I'm not seeing evidence she's been inconsistent, with the facts that is, or is embellishing them. Back in the 70s, women were either teachers or nurses or secretaries, and mostly single if they were working at all. If they were married and working, when they got pregnant, they quit and stayed home to take care of the kids. And it makes sense that back in the 70s, she accepted that, like everyone else. It was, after all, an "automatic resignation" scenario at the time. She didn't complain about it then, because that's not who she was then.
People have the right, and maybe even the obligation, to re-examine their opinions about things they accepted in the past. It's not right to call her out on a lack of consistency in her beliefs across a span of nearly 50 years.
In 2019, our entire society has rejected the idea a woman should have to resign because she's pregnant, and that's worth pointing out. No doubt, she uses this episode as a segue or support for her position on abortion rights, which is where I suspect your actual opposition lies.
I can certainly understand a principled, or even religiously-inspired, opposition to her stance on abortion rights, or even the entire Democratic Party's similar stance. But if that's the actual motivation, I'm not seeing how that opposition is advanced by promoting clearly partisan-inspired attacks lacking objective support.
Doesn't take a whole lot of that before folks begin to wonder if your support for other issues, like your personal religious beliefs, might be just as contentious.
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Not only have I backed off my use of Pocahontas as a name for her, I've also backed off this particular issue. I will, therefore, not be responding to the rest of your chastisement.
ETA: It looks like your entire screed is seriously flawed, since I'm no longer holding Warren to this particular offense.Last edited by Cow Poke; 10-09-2019, 07:46 AM.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Juvenal View PostOh, and just by the way, you're wrong about that, too, but I'm okay with letting you wear your hat the way that suits you, and willing to tolerate your belief that it's not okay for me to wear mine the way it suits me.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostActually, the facts DO support this. Just not necessarily the facts relating to her 'pregnancy' story. It's her "Native American" claims that demonstrate her flair for embellishment and inconsistency, and that's probably why people were so quick to jump on her 'pregnancy' story as suspect.
Not only have I backed off my use of Pocahontas as a name for her, I've also backed off this particular issue. I will, therefore, not be responding to the rest of your chastisement.
ETA: It looks like your entire screed is seriously flawed, since I'm no longer holding Warren to this particular offense.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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