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  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Not talking about you specifically pixie. I'm talking about the Evangelical Community as a whole prostituting itself with Donald Trump as the reason my focus is on Trump on these pages. It's not just that Trump is bad. And make no mistake, he is bad. As far as I can tell he is probably worse than any predecessor in our life time. And I'd be willing to say that on these pages. But that is not what keeps me coming back and continuing to try to make the point. What keeps me coming back is Christians excusing, participating in covering up what he is doing that is bad, ignoring it, justifying it, claiming the only reason it is reported is MSM 'bias'.

    Because that turns the evangelical community into an Objective with no substantive excuse Hypocrites with a capitol H. We pretend we are against gay marriage because it is 'immoral' all the while standing behind Trump as he declares war on the poor, as he lies, cheats, undermines the rule of law, commits illegal acts trying to win the next election and so on and so forth. It doesn't fly. You try telling an immigrant that has lost her child to our immigration policies that you are 100% in Trumps camp on that, and oh, by the way, Jesus loves you and I'm praying for you. Or a gay person they shouldn't act out their sexual urges all the while excusing the Access Hollywood tape, or fighting against the women that have been sexually harassed by Trump.

    Capitol H pix. Capitol H.

    Jim
    That’s a great melodrama you’ve displayed there where you dodged everything I said, but again:

    And it’s my job to defend them because....

    I don’t care what they said Jim, I care what I said and the choice is pretty easy:

    Pick the people that have promised to raise your taxes through the roof and who promise to use the full force of the government to make your church and you accept what they accept or else. Or vote for the person that at least had promised and hasn’t taken steps to use the government to destroy you.

    Your melodrama doesn’t make my point disappear.
    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-16-2019, 10:36 AM.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
      And it’s my job to defend them because....
      And exactly where in that post did I talk about 'defending them'. I'm talking about the church defending Trump against the consequences of his misdeeds all the while accusing others of immorality.

      Here it is again:

      Originally posted by oxmixmudd

      Not talking about you specifically pixie. I'm talking about the Evangelical Community as a whole prostituting itself with Donald Trump as the reason my focus is on Trump on these pages. It's not just that Trump is bad. And make no mistake, he is bad. As far as I can tell he is probably worse than any predecessor in our life time. And I'd be willing to say that on these pages. But that is not what keeps me coming back and continuing to try to make the point. What keeps me coming back is Christians excusing, participating in covering up what he is doing that is bad, ignoring it, justifying it, claiming the only reason it is reported is MSM 'bias'.

      Because that turns the evangelical community into an Objective with no substantive excuse Hypocrites with a capitol H. We pretend we are against gay marriage because it is 'immoral' all the while standing behind Trump as he declares war on the poor, as he lies, cheats, undermines the rule of law, commits illegal acts trying to win the next election and so on and so forth. It doesn't fly. You try telling an immigrant that has lost her child to our immigration policies that you are 100% in Trumps camp on that, and oh, by the way, Jesus loves you and I'm praying for you. Or a gay person they shouldn't act out their sexual urges all the while excusing the Access Hollywood tape, or fighting against the women that have been sexually harassed by Trump.

      Capitol H pix. Capitol H.
      Who are 'they', and where did I say anything about you 'defending them'?

      The focus is on the hypocrisy of supporting Donald Trump when he does seriously wrong things.

      Jim

      ---

      BTW - it is always a Christian's duty to defend against evil when possible. So it is your job to defend the oppressed, the poor, the destitute, the abused - because you claim Christ Jesus as your Lord.


      Jim
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        And exactly where in that post did I talk about 'defending them'. I'm talking about the church defending Trump against the consequences of his misdeeds all the while accusing others of immorality.
        And that has a single thing do with a word I said how? Your dancing around my point says a lot. You have no answer to a word I said, so you’re pivoting to this one so you can make it disappear. I’m not going to defend them Jim, you want them to answer, find one of them. My point is:

        The choice is between Trump or the democrat field. Thus far the democrats have promised to raise my taxes, raise my cost of living, and using the full force of the government to force my church to accept what they accept or else.

        Those are what we are left with. Answer what I said, not what you wanted me to say.

        Who are 'they', and where did I say anything about you 'defending them'?
        This is your strawman, you tell me.

        BTW - it is always a Christian's duty to defend against evil when possible. So it is your job to defend the oppressed, the poor, the destitute, the abused - because you claim Christ Jesus as your Lord.
        That’s some great guilt tripping, but you are far from proving your assertions are true and you’re still dodging. Clutch those pearls and when you’re church is forced to accept what the state says it should accept or is closed down, I hope you remember this moment and my warnings. Enjoy being a serf.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
          And that has a single thing do with a word I said how? Your dancing around my point says a lot. You have no answer to a word I said, so you’re pivoting to this one so you can make it disappear. I’m not going to defend them Jim, you want them to answer, find one of them. My point is:

          The choice is between Trump or the democrat field. Thus far the democrats have promised to raise my taxes, raise my cost of living, and using the full force of the government to force my church to accept what they accept or else.

          Those are what we are left with. Answer what I said, not what you wanted me to say.



          This is your strawman, you tell me.



          That’s some great guilt tripping, but you are far from proving your assertions are true and you’re still dodging. Clutch those pearls and when you’re church is forced to accept what the state says it should accept or is closed down, I hope you remember this moment and my warnings. Enjoy being a serf.
          You were changing your posts as I responded to them Pix. So the least you could do is quit pretending my responses where to your posts in their final form.

          Being reminded of one's moral obligations should never be considered 'guilt tripping'. We are commanded to remind one another of what is good and true. Of what our obligations are as Christians. And we are commended to yield to them if we follow Christ.



          Jim
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            You were changing your posts as I responded to them Pix. So the least you could do is quit pretending my responses where to your posts in their final form.
            My question has existed for sometime. You seem unwilling/unable to answer and keep trying to pivot away from my central point. I’m not stupid Jim, stop pretending I can’t see your attempts to pivot away from my central point.

            Being reminded of one's moral obligations should never be considered 'guilt tripping'. We are commanded to remind one another of what is good and true. Of what our obligations are as Christians. And we are commends to yield to them if we follow Christ.
            Note the assumption that your position is true by default and daring to disagree with you is ‘neglecting their duty to Christ’. You have far from established your position as true and your attempts to put me on the ‘you’re neglecting your faith if you dare to disagree with me’ footing, right at the start, is noted. You’re guilt tripping and are too dishonest to admit it. I’m not stupid, I know the dance. Stop acting as though I don’t see the set up.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              My question has existed for sometime. You seem unwilling/unable to answer and keep trying to pivot away from my central point. I’m not stupid Jim, stop pretending I can’t see your attempts to pivot away from my central point.



              Note the assumption that your position is true by default and daring to disagree with you is ‘neglecting their duty to Christ’. You have far from established your position as true and your attempts to put me on the ‘you’re neglecting your faith if you dare to disagree with me’ footing, right at the start, is noted. You’re guilt tripping and are too dishonest to admit it. I’m not stupid, I know the dance. Stop acting as though I don’t see the set up.
              Assaulting women is immoral. If one is a Christian, there is no other position.

              Breaking the law of the land is immoral. If one is a Christian, that is the case unless the law of the land is itself immoral. So unless you wish to argue that asking foreign agents to help you win your election violates God's law, there is no other position on that as well.

              Abusing the poor is immoral. If one is a Christian, there is no other position. We can debate if Trumps policy constitute abuse of the poor is the only option. We can't argue that abusing the poor is ok.

              Adultery is immoral. If one is a Christian, there is no other position.

              Inciting people to hatred, to revenge, is immoral. If one is a Christian, there is no other position.

              --

              The only possible debate would be over IF Trump is doing those things. But there can be no debate over whether or not Christians supporting or justifying those things is immoral or wrong.


              Jim
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                The choice in 2016 was:

                Trump or Clinton.

                What one at least promised to leave Christians alone to practice their beliefs?
                Clinton proposed that Christians operating businesses should not be exempt from anti-discrimination laws.

                Trump proposed massive surveillance of Muslim communities, curtailing the ability of Muslims to include religious rules in civil disputes with the consent of both parties -- a legal accommodation Christian and Jewish sects enjoy --, and proposed the outright ban of Muslim travel to the United States.

                A non-bigoted person who was interested in religious liberty as a principle and not merely out of paranoid self-interest shouldn't have a difficult choice between those two.

                --Sam
                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                  Thus trying to get Sam to understand multiple predictions, got it wrong, continues to be a waste of time.
                  The original assertion was that polling is useless because "the polls" said that Clinton would win.

                  Since then, the argument (to be gracious) has morphed numerous times but the forced innumeracy remains the same: the idea that a prediction equates to a certainty and a predicted Clinton victory makes no allowance for a possible Trump victory.

                  An innumerate argument at the start, an innumerate argument now.

                  --Sam
                  "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    Assaulting women is immoral. If one is a Christian, there is no other position.

                    Breaking the law of the land is immoral. If one is a Christian, that is the case unless the law of the land is itself immoral. So unless you wish to argue that asking foreign agents to help you win your election violates God's law, there is no other position on that as well.

                    Abusing the poor is immoral. If one is a Christian, there is no other position. We can debate if Trumps policy constitute abuse of the poor is the only option. We can't argue that abusing the poor is ok.

                    Adultery is immoral. If one is a Christian, there is no other position.

                    Inciting people to hatred, to revenge, is immoral. If one is a Christian, there is no other position.

                    --

                    The only possible debate would be over IF Trump is doing those things. But there can be no debate over whether or not Christians supporting or justifying those things is immoral or wrong.


                    Jim
                    Asserted, not demonstrated.

                    Sorry Jim, but I’m not stupid. Prove your above assertions are true because I’m not aware that Trump had been found guilty of a crime, the job market is great, I wasn’t aware that one had to be perfect to be the president, and I haven’t given into hate, like you have, I simply picked the one more likely to let me live in the way I choose to.

                    Assertions dismissed.
                    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-16-2019, 12:14 PM.
                    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                      The original assertion was that polling is useless because "the polls" said that Clinton would win.

                      Since then, the argument (to be gracious) has morphed numerous times but the forced innumeracy remains the same: the idea that a prediction equates to a certainty and a predicted Clinton victory makes no allowance for a possible Trump victory.

                      An innumerate argument at the start, an innumerate argument now.

                      --Sam
                      They’re useless Sam because they almost all pointed to X, but Y actually happened.
                      Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-16-2019, 12:13 PM.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                        Clinton proposed that Christians operating businesses should not be exempt from anti-discrimination laws.
                        It’s too bad that the court said that the state of Colorado was the one doing the discrimination, oops.

                        Trump proposed massive surveillance of Muslim communities, curtailing the ability of Muslims to include religious rules in civil disputes with the consent of both parties -- a legal accommodation Christian and Jewish sects enjoy --, and proposed the outright ban of Muslim travel to the United States.
                        There was no Muslim ban, stop accepting lies.

                        A non-bigoted person who was interested in religious liberty as a principle and not merely out of paranoid self-interest shouldn't have a difficult choice between those two.

                        --Sam


                        Somebody covered his ears and screamed a lot last night. Enjoy going to your state approved Church Sam.
                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                          They’re useless Sam because they almost all pointed to X, but Y actually happened.
                          Again, this is an argument that would result in a failing grade in a freshman high school math class. You should reconsider it.

                          --Sam
                          "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                            Asserted, not demonstrated.

                            Sorry Jim, but I’m not stupid. Prove your above assertions are true because I’m not aware that Trump had been found guilty of a crime, the job market is great, I wasn’t aware that one had to be perfect to be the president, and I haven’t given into hate, like you have, I simply picked the one more likely to let me live in the way I choose to.

                            Assertions dismissed.
                            You - again - are not reading clearly. There is nothing in that post that is an assertion.

                            Jim
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                              It’s too bad that the court said that the state of Colorado was the one doing the discrimination, oops.



                              There was no Muslim ban, stop accepting lies.





                              Somebody covered his ears and screamed a lot last night. Enjoy going to your state approved Church Sam.

                              Last I checked, Trump's 2016 campaign site still featured an entire page dedicated to his proposed Muslim ban. And plenty of "religious freedom" Christians voted for him while he was proposing it.

                              And anyone who did owns it and will own it forever. Anyone trying to claim that Trump represents religious freedom, even now, is either lying to themselves or others.

                              --Sam
                              "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                                Again, this is an argument that would result in a failing grade in a freshman high school math class. You should reconsider it.

                                --Sam
                                Now we reach the point where Sam tries to declare anyone that doesn’t accept his brilliance, is just stupid. Polls predicting X, but Y happening should at least give you some pause, but it doesn’t.
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                                Comment

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