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Public service announcement about the De-energizing of Rural California.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Not to the degree these wilderness areas of California are subject to annual severe droughts, extremely high winds, and extremely hot wild fires that burn the way they do. Though some places have equivalent hazards, but no not everywhere has these hazards on an annual basis that literally destroy vast areas of thousands of acres.

    The Native Americans traditionally described and knew of the danger, and would not live in these areas because of these reasons.
    Entire cities have been destroyed by a tornado or hurricane. With deaths numbering in the thousands.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • #17
      PG&E has been in the crosshairs for many years since Hinkley. It memory serves, they were forced into this by threats of legal action from the state and from groups. The deengerzings weren't popular with the company because it meant they had to (and are) go out and inspect every bit of equipement and tower etc before they can turn everything back on.

      Fingers of blame everywhere because the wilderness and forests weren't managed in the first place!
      Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
        PG&E has been in the crosshairs for many years since Hinkley. It memory serves, they were forced into this by threats of legal action from the state and from groups. The deengerzings weren't popular with the company because it meant they had to (and are) go out and inspect every bit of equipement and tower etc before they can turn everything back on.

        Fingers of blame everywhere because the wilderness and forests weren't managed in the first place!
        Was Barstow one of the effected area's DB?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
          Was Barstow one of the effected area's DB?

          Not so far. And it looks unlikely that we would be affected at all...remains to seen. Last time a fire got anywhere near our area was 2003 with the Olds fire, and judging from the current fire in the Cajon Pass, their power grid isn't part of ours.
          Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            In reality these wilderness areas should not have been developed in the first place.
            I actually agree with this - but victimizing people for buying lawfully built homes in areas that were legally permitted for development is unconscionable. It looks like the state trying to reduce the property values - or just plain drive people out - presumably for later 'reclamation', at much lower prices than current market value.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Quill Sword

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              I actually agree with this - but victimizing people for buying lawfully built homes in areas that were legally permitted for development is unconscionable. It looks like the state trying to reduce the property values - or just plain drive people out - presumably for later 'reclamation', at much lower prices than current market value.
              On top of that this hits the poorer and middle class worse the the richer even if they do have a generator because of the gas tax the gas to run the generators may make them choose between actual food or making sure what food they have is safe.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                What does "good stewardship" look like to you?
                I can tell you what it isn't it isn't forcing the electric companies to put money into Green energy, and electric car subsidies instead of safety upgrades and repairs to their equipment.

                https://www.wsj.com/articles/califor...es-11570748835
                Two dozen or so wildfires in the past few years have been linked to PG&E equipment, including one last fall that killed 85 people. PG&E under state law is on the hook for tens of billions of dollars in damages and has filed for bankruptcy. For years the utility skimped on safety upgrades and repairs while pumping billions into green energy and electric-car subsidies to please its overlords in Sacramento. Credit Suisse has estimated that long-term contracts with renewable developers cost the utility $2.2 billion annually more than current market power rates.


                Or going with the opposition of eco-nazies to logging and controlled burning and curtailing each of them which is why the area's that had the black out were in danger of wild fires.
                Meantime, opposition to logging and prescribed burns in California’s forests compounded by a seven-year drought has yielded 147 million dead trees that make for combustible fuel. Rural communities are at especially high fire risk when winds kick up as they have this week.
                also from https://www.wsj.com/articles/califor...es-11570748835

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                  I actually agree with this - but victimizing people for buying lawfully built homes in areas that were legally permitted for development is unconscionable. It looks like the state trying to reduce the property values - or just plain drive people out - presumably for later 'reclamation', at much lower prices than current market value.
                  What is legal is an issue, because development laws need to changed. but the problem with development in these California 'wilderness' regions have been known for many years, and it remains up to individuals to be responsible for their own decisions when the devastating and deadly annual fre risks are well known.

                  I do not believe this is what you call 'victimizing', because the fires that followed, and the risk is earrented. By far the overwhelming majority of development in these 'wilderness' regions is higher income housing.
                  Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-12-2019, 08:11 AM.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    Entire cities have been destroyed by a tornado or hurricane. With deaths numbering in the thousands.
                    Yes, what you describe are real disasters, and in part reflect with rising sea levels because of global warming, development in tidal zones, and flood plains of major rivers should be limited.

                    The issue in the 'wilderness' semi-arid regions is that these are regular annual events of widespread complete devastation by fires, and the disaster you reference are not regular annual events in the same locations.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      Yes, what you describe are real disasters, and in part reflect with rising sea levels because of global warming, development in tidal zones, and flood plains of major rivers should be limited.

                      The issue in the 'wilderness' semi-arid regions is that these are regular annual events of widespread complete devastation by fires, and the disaster you reference are not regular annual events in the same locations.
                      Coast lines change all the time shuny. Some are shrinking and others are growing, but that doesn’t change the fact that natural disasters hazards exist everywhere and fewer people are dying as a result of one.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                        Yes, what you describe are real disasters, and in part reflect with rising sea levels because of global warming, development in tidal zones, and flood plains of major rivers should be limited.

                        The issue in the 'wilderness' semi-arid regions is that these are regular annual events of widespread complete devastation by fires, and the disaster you reference are not regular annual events in the same locations.
                        I wanted to add concerning disaster prone regions for river flooding and hurricane floods, which is my specialty in geology as hydrology and geomorphology. A good part of my career was mapping flood prone regions in West Virginia and North Carolina. I published several papers in North Carolina on related coastal geology. I was on a HUD and local governments interdisiplinary project in evaluating flood hazard and development in West Virginia after a devastating hurricane flooding event. Despite all the efforts, development continued in these flood prone areas on a development and individual basis.

                        When hurricane and severe flooding events occur repeatedly in these areas, people still rebuild and expect the government to bail them out when the next flooding and hurricane event takes place.
                        Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-12-2019, 08:40 AM.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          What is legal is an issue, because development laws need to changed. but the problem with development in these California 'wilderness' regions have been known for many years, and it remains up to individuals to be responsible for their own decisions when the devastating and deadly annual fre risks are well known.

                          I do not believe this is what you call 'victimizing', because the fires that followed, and the risk is earrented. By far the overwhelming majority of development in these 'wilderness' regions is higher income housing.
                          Higher income doesn't negate the point - they bought the property lawfully.

                          The failure is in the utility not addressing the hazard long since. Making the property owners suffer - now with one possibly attributable death - is a form of victimization.
                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                          My Personal Blog

                          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                          Quill Sword

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                            Coast lines change all the time shuny. Some are shrinking and others are growing, but that doesn’t change the fact that natural disasters hazards exist everywhere and fewer people are dying as a result of one.
                            One correction for now. Coastlines are NOT growing. There are some areas where melting glaciers have caused the rebound of the land, and there is some migration of barrier islands on the coast, butin general coastlines are not growing.
                            Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-12-2019, 08:21 PM.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              One correction for now. Coastlines are NOT growing. There are some areas where melting glaciers have caused the rebound of the land, and there is some migration of barrier islands on the coast, butin general coastlines are not growing.
                              Hmm. From last year:

                              Source: Beaches worldwide are growing



                              We love holidays on the beach and about a quarter of the world's population live on coasts because of the favourable economic location. But until now we have had only a very vague picture of how coastal areas have evolved worldwide over the years. Scientists in Delft are changing this. Researchers from Deltares, Delft University of Technology and IHE have analysed changes in 50,000 beaches over a 35-year period. They present their findings today in Nature Scientific Reports.

                              General findings

                              For the first time, coasts and their long-term behaviour have been analysed on a global scale. The researchers were able to calculate that exactly 31% of the total coastline consists of sandy beaches. Beaches are monitored because they are vulnerable to changes in tide, wind direction and sea level rise. The researchers also noted that sandy coasts are few in number around the equator and towards the poles. Arjen Luijendijk, researcher at Deltares/Delft University of Technology: ‘For years, the accepted idea was that 70% of our beaches were eroding. We were surprised to see that the sandy coastline does not actually erode that dramatically. Indeed: there are more beaches that grow than beaches that shrink. The main reason is that we are able to maintain our coasts well (as in the Netherlands) or even to expand them (as in Dubai and Singapore). A sometimes forgotten source of sand is the discharges from the mining industry’.

                              Coastal erosion often a local problem

                              The fastest rate of beach growth, eight metres a year no less, was seen in Namibia. It is caused by a mining company that has built sand hills in the sea for diamond mining. The Netherlands is also in the top ten of beach growth due to our beach nourishment policy and the construction of the Sand Motor. Four of the seven largest eroding beaches are in the United States. Beaches in Louisiana and Texas are being hit particularly hard, sometimes receding by 15 metres a year. The Mississippi is the culprit in Louisiana where the sand supply has fallen sharply due to the damming of the river. One of the causes in Texas is groundwater extraction in response to the rapid growth of Houston.


                              Source

                              © Copyright Original Source



                              Continues at link above


                              As is so often is the case this appears to be considerably more complex as is typically portrayed.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                                On top of that this hits the poorer and middle class worse the the richer even if they do have a generator because of the gas tax the gas to run the generators may make them choose between actual food or making sure what food they have is safe.
                                No one has died from the power shutdown, and death toll goes up from the fires.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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