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Take This Impeachment And Shove It...

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  • Originally posted by whag View Post
    Look, I get that you love Trump...
    I get that you're reduced to aping MM here, but starting out with an erroneous statement makes the rest of your post irrelevant.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      I get that you're reduced to aping MM here, but starting out with an erroneous statement makes the rest of your post irrelevant.
      It is not irrelevant. MM is the most vocal supporter of Trump in this forum. "That you love Trump" might be overstatement (just as 'you hate Trump' cast my way is over statement), however, it is consistent with the sort of hyperbole MM mixes into his own posts.
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        First, the Democrats are trying to change the standard of impeachment. They are literally changing the rules to fit their theatrical story. Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler wrote in the preface that the previous reports on grounds for impeachable offenses in the Nixon and Clinton eras “remain useful points of reference, but no longer reflect the best available learning on questions relating to presidential impeachment.”

        Why, Jerry? Because you have no evidence for legitimate grounds of impeachment? This only proves that President Trump indeed does not belong in the ranks of Nixon and Clinton, where there was actually evidence of impeachable offenses.

        Second, the Democrats are proceeding with impeachment against President Trump not because of any past wrongdoing which they have no proof of, but to “save the Nation” from Trump remaining in office. That is not a constitutionally permissible reason to impeach. That’s why we have elections. The American people get to decide who remains in office, absent clear evidence of impeachable offenses actually committed. We don’t impeach or convict based on a vague fear for democracy from the opposition party.

        The Report, however, claims that impeachment exists, “not to inflict punishment for past wrongdoing, but rather to save the Nation from misconduct that endangers democracy and the rule of law.” This is not the standard for any legal proceeding in any context in the United States. We do not bring charges (even articles of impeachment) or convict based on the possibility of a future threat “to democracy” or otherwise.

        https://townhall.com/columnists/jenn...ution-n2557690
        What is truly sad here MM is that there are so many so tied to their partisan tribe they cannot see the gravity of a president coercing a foreign nation into acting in a way that potentially could interfere with the next election, and not only to do that, to do that by a means which endangers US national security.

        It is truly sad that the political polarization of our nation has reached the point one side will actually support actions that aid our enemy - Russia - and endanger another nations people at the hands of Russian aggression. I believe history will judge this day and the people trying to pretend these acts are questionable or excusable very, very harshly. I would not be surprised to see classes taught 15, 25 or more years from now on how group think can undermine basic moral principles in very large groups of otherwise moral people that will include Trump and Trump supporters as prime examples, with class members asking their professors how such a people could be so completely misled and confused as to the dangers of such behavior and their obligations to oppose it.
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          It looks like that's what they've settled on, two vague and amorphous terms that don't describe any actual crimes. In fact, Democrats are claiming that "abuse of power" and "obstruction of Congress" can refer to perfectly legal acts that are done with the "wrong" motives.

          https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...f-impeachment/

          This thing is turning into a bigger farce than I think anybody could have predicted.
          A very sad day when otherwise moral people can argue for the excusing and acceptance of abuse of power on a national scale by the President of the United States.

          A very, very sad day indeed.
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            What is truly sad here MM is that there are so many so tied to their partisan tribe they cannot see the gravity of a president coercing a foreign nation into acting in a way that potentially could interfere with the next election, and not only to do that, to do that by a means which endangers US national security.
            That would certainly be a very serious thing if it actually happened, but Democrats can't even bring themselves to name specific legal statutes that Trump has supposedly violated, instead resorting to vagaries like "abuse of power" and "obstruction of Congress". They may as well accuse him of "abuse of Congress" and "obstruction of power" for all the legal weight it carries!
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              A very sad day when otherwise moral people can argue for the excusing and acceptance of abuse of power on a national scale by the President of the United States.

              A very, very sad day indeed.
              It's not that anything is being excused, it's that the charge of "abuse of power" does not explicitly describe anything to be excused! What crime is Trump actually being accused of? Even the Democrats are hedging their bets with the argument that a president can be impeached for lawful acts done with the "wrong" motives. Surely even you can see what a travesty of justice that is. Remember, if they can get away with doing it to the President of the United States, then what's to stop them from doing it to you?
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                It is not irrelevant. MM is the most vocal supporter of Trump in this forum. "That you love Trump" might be overstatement (just as 'you hate Trump' cast my way is over statement), however, it is consistent with the sort of hyperbole MM mixes into his own posts.
                Noted.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • Apparently it's official:

                  House Democrats on Tuesday unveiled two articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump ... The charges — abuse of power and obstruction of Congress — stem from second-hand allegations brought forth in a whistleblower complaint by a partisan CIA officer, who alleged President Trump attempted to pressure the leader of Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son, Hunter Biden, in exchange for U.S. military aid. Both President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky have both vehemently denied any pressure was applied during their July 25 telephone conversation at the center of the impeachment inquiry. The White House released a transcript of the president’s call with Zelensky as evidence that no wrongdoing occurred.

                  Notably absent from the articles were any mention of bribery, which House Democrats accused the president of committing in his dealings with Ukraine. Also absent was an article regarding past claims that the president obstructed special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into now-debunked criminal conspiracy between the 2016 Trump campaign and Russia.

                  https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...against-trump/

                  Note the conspicuous absence of any specific criminal charges against the President.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Apparently it's official:

                    House Democrats on Tuesday unveiled two articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump ... The charges — abuse of power and obstruction of Congress — stem from second-hand allegations brought forth in a whistleblower complaint by a partisan CIA officer, who alleged President Trump attempted to pressure the leader of Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son, Hunter Biden, in exchange for U.S. military aid. Both President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky have both vehemently denied any pressure was applied during their July 25 telephone conversation at the center of the impeachment inquiry. The White House released a transcript of the president’s call with Zelensky as evidence that no wrongdoing occurred.

                    Notably absent from the articles were any mention of bribery, which House Democrats accused the president of committing in his dealings with Ukraine. Also absent was an article regarding past claims that the president obstructed special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into now-debunked criminal conspiracy between the 2016 Trump campaign and Russia.

                    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...against-trump/

                    Note the conspicuous absence of any specific criminal charges against the President.
                    Here are the actual articles of impeachment.

                    https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/de...mpeachment.pdf

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Because imprecise language and equivocation is exactly what you want to hear when considering the very serious matter of impeaching a US president.

                      Look, I get that you guys hate Trump, but even you have to acknowledge that the Democrats are playing fast and loose here.
                      You said they were no longer using quid pro quo, that it didn't work so they changed the terms. You lied. It was a scheme involving a quid pro quo, military aid for an investigation into his political rival, or actually just a public announcement of an investigation.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Here are the actual articles of impeachment.

                        https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/de...mpeachment.pdf
                        The failure to reference a single law or US code that Trump is supposed to have violated is a glaring omission.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          You said they were no longer using quid pro quo, that it didn't work so they changed the terms. You lied. It was a scheme involving a quid pro quo, military aid for an investigation into his political rival, or actually just a public announcement of an investigation.
                          I did not mean to add an "Amen" to your post. My intent was to report you for a false accusation of lying.

                          But anyway, the Articles of Impeachment have been publicly released, and neither "quid pro quo" nor "bribery" are ever referenced, but the legally ambiguous term "scheme" is used multiple times.
                          Last edited by Mountain Man; 12-10-2019, 10:57 AM.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            The failure to reference a single law or US code that Trump is supposed to have violated is a glaring omission.
                            Yeah and it is entirely based on hearsay. Not a bit of evidence is provided. Just what someone else said that Trump did, and which both Trump and the Ukraine president denied and the transcript of the phone call refutes.

                            This is just for show. They know it can't pass the Senate without any evidence.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              They know it can't pass the Senate without any evidence.
                              At this point, it's not even a given that it will pass the House.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                It's not that anything is being excused, it's that the charge of "abuse of power" does not explicitly describe anything to be excused! What crime is Trump actually being accused of? Even the Democrats are hedging their bets with the argument that a president can be impeached for lawful acts done with the "wrong" motives. Surely even you can see what a travesty of justice that is. Remember, if they can get away with doing it to the President of the United States, then what's to stop them from doing it to you?
                                Sorry - doesn't fly. That the President abused his power of office and obstructed Congress in the process is clear from the evidence and testimony resented. What you should be concerned about is what it means that a large portion of the senate and congress are willing to overlook that evidence on party lines. That is the real danger to this country and its people. It sets the stage for far worse than Trump if not dealt with.
                                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                                Comment

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