Take This Impeachment And Shove It...

[One Bad Pig]

Look, I get that you love Trump...

I get that you're reduced to aping MM here, but starting out with an erroneous statement makes the rest of your post irrelevant.

[oxmixmudd]

I get that you're reduced to aping MM here, but starting out with an erroneous statement makes the rest of your post irrelevant.

It is not irrelevant. MM is the most vocal supporter of Trump in this forum. "That you love Trump" might be overstatement (just as 'you hate Trump' cast my way is over statement), however, it is consistent with the sort of hyperbole MM mixes into his own posts.

[oxmixmudd]

https://townhall.com/columnists/jenn...ution-n2557690

What is truly sad here MM is that there are so many so tied to their partisan tribe they cannot see the gravity of a president coercing a foreign nation into acting in a way that potentially could interfere with the next election, and not only to do that, to do that by a means which endangers US national security.

It is truly sad that the political polarization of our nation has reached the point one side will actually support actions that aid our enemy - Russia - and endanger another nations people at the hands of Russian aggression. I believe history will judge this day and the people trying to pretend these acts are questionable or excusable very, very harshly. I would not be surprised to see classes taught 15, 25 or more years from now on how group think can undermine basic moral principles in very large groups of otherwise moral people that will include Trump and Trump supporters as prime examples, with class members asking their professors how such a people could be so completely misled and confused as to the dangers of such behavior and their obligations to oppose it.

[oxmixmudd]

It looks like that's what they've settled on, two vague and amorphous terms that don't describe any actual crimes. In fact, Democrats are claiming that "abuse of power" and "obstruction of Congress" can refer to perfectly legal acts that are done with the "wrong" motives.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...f-impeachment/

This thing is turning into a bigger farce than I think anybody could have predicted.

A very sad day when otherwise moral people can argue for the excusing and acceptance of abuse of power on a national scale by the President of the United States.

A very, very sad day indeed.

[Mountain Man]

What is truly sad here MM is that there are so many so tied to their partisan tribe they cannot see the gravity of a president coercing a foreign nation into acting in a way that potentially could interfere with the next election, and not only to do that, to do that by a means which endangers US national security.

That would certainly be a very serious thing if it actually happened, but Democrats can't even bring themselves to name specific legal statutes that Trump has supposedly violated, instead resorting to vagaries like "abuse of power" and "obstruction of Congress". They may as well accuse him of "abuse of Congress" and "obstruction of power" for all the legal weight it carries!

[Mountain Man]

A very sad day when otherwise moral people can argue for the excusing and acceptance of abuse of power on a national scale by the President of the United States.

A very, very sad day indeed.

It's not that anything is being excused, it's that the charge of "abuse of power" does not explicitly describe anything to be excused! What crime is Trump actually being accused of? Even the Democrats are hedging their bets with the argument that a president can be impeached for lawful acts done with the "wrong" motives. Surely even you can see what a travesty of justice that is. Remember, if they can get away with doing it to the President of the United States, then what's to stop them from doing it to you?

[One Bad Pig]

It is not irrelevant. MM is the most vocal supporter of Trump in this forum. "That you love Trump" might be overstatement (just as 'you hate Trump' cast my way is over statement), however, it is consistent with the sort of hyperbole MM mixes into his own posts.

Noted.

[Mountain Man]

Apparently it's official:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...against-trump/

Note the conspicuous absence of any specific criminal charges against the President.

[Sparko]

Apparently it's official:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...against-trump/

Note the conspicuous absence of any specific criminal charges against the President.

Here are the actual articles of impeachment.

https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/de...mpeachment.pdf

[JimL]

Because imprecise language and equivocation is exactly what you want to hear when considering the very serious matter of impeaching a US president.

Look, I get that you guys hate Trump, but even you have to acknowledge that the Democrats are playing fast and loose here.

You said they were no longer using quid pro quo, that it didn't work so they changed the terms. You lied. It was a scheme involving a quid pro quo, military aid for an investigation into his political rival, or actually just a public announcement of an investigation.

[Mountain Man]

Here are the actual articles of impeachment.

https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/de...mpeachment.pdf

The failure to reference a single law or US code that Trump is supposed to have violated is a glaring omission.

[Mountain Man]

You said they were no longer using quid pro quo, that it didn't work so they changed the terms. You lied. It was a scheme involving a quid pro quo, military aid for an investigation into his political rival, or actually just a public announcement of an investigation.

I did not mean to add an "Amen" to your post. My intent was to report you for a false accusation of lying.

But anyway, the Articles of Impeachment have been publicly released, and neither "quid pro quo" nor "bribery" are ever referenced, but the legally ambiguous term "scheme" is used multiple times.

[Sparko]

The failure to reference a single law or US code that Trump is supposed to have violated is a glaring omission.

Yeah and it is entirely based on hearsay. Not a bit of evidence is provided. Just what someone else said that Trump did, and which both Trump and the Ukraine president denied and the transcript of the phone call refutes.

This is just for show. They know it can't pass the Senate without any evidence.

[Mountain Man]

They know it can't pass the Senate without any evidence.

At this point, it's not even a given that it will pass the House.

[oxmixmudd]

It's not that anything is being excused, it's that the charge of "abuse of power" does not explicitly describe anything to be excused! What crime is Trump actually being accused of? Even the Democrats are hedging their bets with the argument that a president can be impeached for lawful acts done with the "wrong" motives. Surely even you can see what a travesty of justice that is. Remember, if they can get away with doing it to the President of the United States, then what's to stop them from doing it to you?

Sorry - doesn't fly. That the President abused his power of office and obstructed Congress in the process is clear from the evidence and testimony resented. What you should be concerned about is what it means that a large portion of the senate and congress are willing to overlook that evidence on party lines. That is the real danger to this country and its people. It sets the stage for far worse than Trump if not dealt with.