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Thread: Take This Impeachment And Shove It...

  1. #741
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Nadler was playing that sheisty game saying that Trump's failure to appear pretty much proves he's guilty --- in an actual courtroom, the defense would object, and the judge would sustain, and explain to the jury how it really works.
    Really CP? In an actual courtroom the defendent doesn't get to fail to appear.

  2. #742
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Really CP?
    Really, Jim.

    In an actual courtroom the defendent doesn't get to fail to appear.
    It depends, Jim - in a civil trial, the defendant is not required to appear. In a criminal trial, he is not required to testify. Even in the case of a misdemeanor, the defendant may have his attorney appear for him.

    Don't believe everything you read in those talkingpoints, Jim.
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  3. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  4. #743
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    This is the United States of America, Jimmy. Trump doesn't have to prove his innocence, it is presumed until he is formally convicted of a crime.
    You keep getting this wrong. How do you think people get to trial at all, if they are presumed innocent? You have a faulty justice theory. All you are entitled to is a fair trial.

    At trial and before, a person is accused of a crime - that is in no way a presumption of innocence.
    Last edited by firstfloor; 12-02-2019 at 04:41 PM.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  5. #744
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    This is the United States of America, Jimmy. Trump doesn't have to prove his innocence, it is presumed until he is formally convicted of a crime.
    Of course he doesn't have to, but he is free to if he so desires. He could explain the whole thing to the american people, but he wouldn't dare, and I'll give you one guess as to why.

  6. #745
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    You keep getting this wrong. How do you think people get to trial at all, if they are presumed innocent?
    It's a process. They start off "innocent", and have to be charged with an offense to end up in court. There, they are still assumed innocent until the prosecution meets the burden of proof.

    You have a faulty justice theory.
    I can understand why somebody from a foreign country (beautiful though it may be) would think that.

    All you are entitled to is a fair trial.
    Actually, there are more elements -- like the right to face your accuser, a trial by a jury of your peers (in many cases), the right to an appeal....
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  7. Amen RumTumTugger, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  8. #746
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Of course he doesn't have to, but he is free to if he so desires. He could explain the whole thing to the american people, but he wouldn't dare, and I'll give you one guess as to why.
    Because he prefers to Tweet!
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  9. #747
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Nadler was playing that sheisty game saying that Trump's failure to appear pretty much proves he's guilty --- in an actual courtroom, the defense would object, and the judge would sustain, and explain to the jury how it really works.
    If that's really the standard they want to set then it begs the question why Democrats don't want Biden to be investigated.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  10. #748
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    It's a process. They start off "innocent", and have to be charged with an offense to end up in court. There, they are still assumed innocent until the prosecution meets the burden of proof.



    I can understand why somebody from a foreign country (beautiful though it may be) would think that.



    Actually, there are more elements -- like the right to face your accuser, a trial by a jury of your peers (in many cases), the right to an appeal....
    I'm on my phone or I'd link it. Try presumption of innocence in Wiki. It's common to most nations and several international organizations.

  11. #749
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtfloor View Post
    You keep getting this wrong. How do you think people get to trial at all, if they are presumed innocent? You have a faulty justice theory. All you are entitled to is a fair trial.

    At trial and before, a person is accused of a crime - that is in no way a presumption of innocence.
    I don't know how it works in your country, but in the US, people appear in court to contest the charges against them, and they are presumed innocent until the final verdict is read. Otherwise, there would be no point in even having a trial.

    Let me put it like this: every single person who has ever been found not guilty in a court of law was charged with a crime at some point.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  12. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  13. #750
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    I'm on my phone or I'd link it. Try presumption of innocence in Wiki. It's common to most nations and several international organizations.
    He's arguing that ..... it's a bit convoluted.... if the guy murdered somebody, then he's not innocent cause he's a criminal, blah blah blah yada yada yada....

    What he's missing is FOR THE PURPOSES OF THE LAW, he must be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

    It's kinda like I say to salespeople when they want to sell me something --- "OK, I start at 'no' - your job is to get me to 'yes', or at least, 'maybe' -- you have 30 seconds".
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  14. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.

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