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Thread: Take This Impeachment And Shove It...

  1. #131
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Yes, it's a simple data wiping program, like those found in CCleaner and AVG. The allegation was that Clinton used a wiping technique so sophisticated that even forensic tools couldn't recover the data. That misrepresents at least three things:

    1) The allegation involves an incident where a Platte River Network, the host of Clinton's servers, employee erased a PST backup file of Clinton's emails in March 2015, after realizing that he didn't do so in 2014, before Clinton's emails were subpoenaed. The matter was investigated and the employee told the FBI that he did so because he saw a news report on the matter and remembered that he had not deleted the file. Because the employee was offered immunity for his testimony, he faced no charges. No evidence was found to suggest that Clinton or anyone associated with her directed the illegal destruction of evidence or that they were even aware of this leftover backup file.

    2) Shredding applications like Bleachbit are common and all advertise that they can "prevent recovery". Recovery, however, depends on a wide number of variables so anything from zeroing out sectors to overwriting with "junk" data can succeed or fail to prevent recovery based on factors outside the application's control.

    3) Forensic recovery isn't some sort of magic. If a file reference is deleted and the file split over a hundred different sectors, forensic tools might not be able to recover it even without any specialized applications. Recovery becomes much harder when files are overwritten by applications like CCleaner, AVG, or Bleachbit but there is not, in practice, much difference between a one-pass overwrite like Bleachbit and a seven-pass DoD-compliant overwrite.


    I don't expect this to dissuade y'all who have had years to understand the basic facts about this allegation from bearing false witness but there it is for others, at least.

    --Sam
    So youíre saying that Clinton couldnít of accidentally made a hard drive unable to be analyzed and had to deliberately do it. Thank you.
    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-10-2019 at 04:30 PM.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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  3. #132
    tWebber
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    Usually people don't shoot their own argument in the head with their own links but usually people have given their own argument a modicum of thought which hasn't been a strong suit of y'all arguing this point.

    So I suppose that's why you're citing someone who says just zeroing out the sectors that a file is stored on -- something any basic deletion software can do and common practice in any IT department -- often renders the file unrecoverable to even advanced forensic techniques.

    --Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Not really. Read what Bleachbit's creator has to say. His software is specifically designed to render data unrecoverable.

    https://docs.bleachbit.org/doc/shred...ipe-disks.html

    And this from Wikipedia:

    Daniel Feenberg, an economist at the private National Bureau of Economic Research, claims that the chances of overwritten data being recovered from a modern hard drive amount to "urban legend". He also points to the "​18 1⁄2-minute gap" Rose Mary Woods created on a tape of Richard Nixon discussing the Watergate break-in. Erased information in the gap has not been recovered, and Feenberg claims doing so would be an easy task compared to recovery of a modern high density digital signal.

    [...]

    ...according to the 2014 NIST Special Publication 800-88 Rev. 1 (p. 7): "For storage devices containing magnetic media, a single overwrite pass with a fixed pattern such as binary zeros typically hinders recovery of data even if state of the art laboratory techniques are applied to attempt to retrieve the data." An analysis by Wright et al. of recovery techniques, including magnetic force microscopy, also concludes that a single wipe is all that is required for modern drives.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data...erwritten_data

    Bottom line: anybody using Bleachbit wants to render their data literally unrecoverable.
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" ó Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  4. #133
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Usually people don't shoot their own argument in the head with their own links but usually people have given their own argument a modicum of thought which hasn't been a strong suit of y'all arguing this point.

    So I suppose that's why you're citing someone who says just zeroing out the sectors that a file is stored on -- something any basic deletion software can do and common practice in any IT department -- often renders the file unrecoverable to even advanced forensic techniques.

    --Sam
    Whatís the name of the forest, youíre in?
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  5. #134
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Usually people don't shoot their own argument in the head with their own links but usually people have given their own argument a modicum of thought which hasn't been a strong suit of y'all arguing this point.

    So I suppose that's why you're citing someone who says just zeroing out the sectors that a file is stored on -- something any basic deletion software can do and common practice in any IT department -- often renders the file unrecoverable to even advanced forensic techniques.

    --Sam
    You're missing the point. Someone using purpose built "file shredding" software that is explicitly designed to render data unrecoverable is deliberately going out of their way to make sure nothing on the hard drive can be recovered. In the case of Hillary and her gang using Bleachbit to wipe her server ("You mean like with a cloth?"), it was done willfully and with intent to prevent the subpoenaed data from being used as evidence against them.

    Although I think you're smart enough to understand all of this and are playing "devil's advocate" just to keep the debate going.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  6. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  7. #135
    tWebber
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    It's easy to understand why y'all never detail the allegations you're making here. The accusation is that Clinton, with her email data under subpoena, ordered the secure deletion of relevant hardware. But there's nothing to suggest that happened. What the accusation refers back to is the deletion of a PST file by a PRN employee in March 2015. The employee deleted the file in response to a news report about the subpoena but there is no evidence that Clinton directed him to do so or that the use of Bleachbit was itself evidence of intent to suppress evidence. Such software use would be mandatory at almost any server hosting hosting company when it comes to client data. And folks who don't understand the first thing about this stuff really shouldn't be telling those of us who do what normal IT security practices are.

    But if you talk about what really happened instead of repeating the accusation over and over then you lose the argument on the merits and it's far too precious for that to happen.

    --Sam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    You're missing the point. Someone using purpose built "file shredding" software is deliberately going out of their way to make sure nothing on the hard drive can be recovered. In the case of Hillary and her gang using Bleachbit to wipe her server ("You mean like with a cloth?"), it was done willfully and with intent to prevent the subpoenaed data from being used as evidence against them.

    Although I think you're smart enough to understand all of this and are playing "devil's advocate" just to keep the debate going.
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" ó Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  8. #136
    tWebber
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    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" ó Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  9. #137
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    It's easy to understand why y'all never detail the allegations you're making here. The accusation is that Clinton, with her email data under subpoena, ordered the secure deletion of relevant hardware. But there's nothing to suggest that happened. What the accusation refers back to is the deletion of a PST file by a PRN employee in March 2015. The employee deleted the file in response to a news report about the subpoena but there is no evidence that Clinton directed him to do so or that the use of Bleachbit was itself evidence of intent to suppress evidence. Such software use would be mandatory at almost any server hosting hosting company when it comes to client data. And folks who don't understand the first thing about this stuff really shouldn't be telling those of us who do what normal IT security practices are.

    But if you talk about what really happened instead of repeating the accusation over and over then you lose the argument on the merits and it's far too precious for that to happen.

    --Sam
    Your apologetics for Hillary are truly touching, but if it is all innocent as you claim, why all the lies and deceit? Hillary life repeatedly and often about her e mails and what they contained. She lied about them just being of a personal nature. She lied about them containing no classified material. Others lied about having no knowledge of the e mail server. The entire affair has been wrapped in lie after lie, so sorry Sam. Innocent people donít need to lie and mislead the public, repeatedly and often. If this was Trump or a member of his administration, youíd be calling for impeachment, but because itís a democrat, you make excuse after excuse. Hilary and her staff broke the law, repeatedly and knowingly. If they truly had no idea they were breaking the law, despite training and resources that told them they were, none of them needs to hold a government office if they are that forgetful.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  10. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  11. #138
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity, is this Bleachbit thing so badly designed that it doesn't notify you before it starts irretrievably destroying your data?

  12. #139
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Not really. Read what Bleachbit's creator has to say. His software is specifically designed to render data unrecoverable.

    https://docs.bleachbit.org/doc/shred...ipe-disks.html

    And this from Wikipedia:

    Daniel Feenberg, an economist at the private National Bureau of Economic Research, claims that the chances of overwritten data being recovered from a modern hard drive amount to "urban legend". He also points to the "​18 1⁄2-minute gap" Rose Mary Woods created on a tape of Richard Nixon discussing the Watergate break-in. Erased information in the gap has not been recovered, and Feenberg claims doing so would be an easy task compared to recovery of a modern high density digital signal.

    [...]

    ...according to the 2014 NIST Special Publication 800-88 Rev. 1 (p. 7): "For storage devices containing magnetic media, a single overwrite pass with a fixed pattern such as binary zeros typically hinders recovery of data even if state of the art laboratory techniques are applied to attempt to retrieve the data." An analysis by Wright et al. of recovery techniques, including magnetic force microscopy, also concludes that a single wipe is all that is required for modern drives.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data...erwritten_data

    Bottom line: anybody using Bleachbit wants to render their data literally unrecoverable.
    Bleachbit was never designed or intended for typical maintenance and the like. It was specifically designed to make it impossible to retrieve what it removed making it the tool of choice among organized crime groups and drug cartels.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  13. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  14. #140
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    So youíre saying that Clinton couldnít of accidentally made a hard drive unable to be analyzed and had to deliberately do it. Thank you.
    Considering the intent when they smashed their blackberries with hammers...

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

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