Originally posted by Mountain Man
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Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
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Take This Impeachment And Shove It...
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“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by JimL View PostI'm attacking the messenger because the messenger is a fraud, not because his message can't be refuted. If you watched the testimony you'd know that the whole idea to investigate Biden was driven by this political hack, and that his reporting was full of lies or fake news if you will. Vindman, Kent, Fiona Hill, all under oath. You're problem, like MM, CP, rogue, et al, is that you live in that conservative bubble where they lie to you every day, and you just eat it up.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/vindman...ing-were-false"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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About fairness:
What is unfair is that Trump and his lawyers have given up any semblance of fidelity to facts, have smeared distinguished witnesses, attempted to intimidate the whistleblower (and put his or her safety in jeopardy), hurled baseless accusations at House Democrats investigating presidential wrongdoing and, worst of all, obstructed Congress by refusing to produce documents and blocking critical witnesses from testifying.
On Sunday, Pat A. Cipollone, the White House counsel, sent Nadler a letter declining to show up for the Wednesday hearing but reserving the right to participate later on. The New York Times wrote: “The refusal to send lawyers Wednesday continues a pattern of stonewalling by Mr. Trump, who has sought to block witnesses and documents, as he and his allies call the proceedings ‘deranged’ and a ‘witch hunt.’”
There is no mystery as to what is going on here. Trump has no facts to put forth and no valid constitutional argument that bribery (specifically mentioned in the Constitution) and obstruction fail to meet the standard for impeachment. (As the Lawfare blog puts it, “There is every reason to believe that the drafters of the Constitution had in mind a scope that easily encompasses Trump’s conduct. ... The transcript [of the July 25 call] makes clear that Trump tied together the request for a personal favor with the delivery of military aid. But even if he had not made such a direct connection, this sort of corrupt use of public office to obtain a private benefit fits squarely within the definition of bribery when the Constitution was written.”)
“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAbout politics.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAbout politics.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostRepublicans have already accepted the fact that their dear leader, the POTUS, has committed bribery, and all they can do now is try to delegitimise the impeachment processes so that they can (as they surely will) let him off. That indeed will be a political act of considerable notoriety that will leave previous generations of noble Republicans, spinning in their graves.
This impeachment drive is a huge political bust for Democrats
Impeachment is a political process. And judging the process strictly on political grounds, the impeachment of President Trump hasn’t been a success for Democrats.
After all, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Rep. Adam Schiff haven’t gotten any closer to convincing a single Senate Republican to remove the president. It’s highly probable that a Senate trial run by Republicans, with new witnesses and evidence, would further corrode the Democrats’ case.
Liberals will pretend that Senate Republicans are members of a reactionary Trump cult, but if there had been incontrovertible proof of “bribery,” a number of them would be compelled to act differently. No such evidence was provided....
and...
Take Schiff, who once claimed to be privy to hard evidence — which never materialized — of a criminal conspiracy between Trump and the Russian regime.
It's a sham.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThough, not a Republican, I'll point out that I'm not the one who de-legitimized the impeachment process - Schiff did that by starting the thing off with a grand lie of his own, then making himself judge, jury, witness corrector/instructor, media liaison... Remember when the Democrats promised they wouldn't do this if it were a partisan thing?
This impeachment drive is a huge political bust for Democrats
Impeachment is a political process. And judging the process strictly on political grounds, the impeachment of President Trump hasn’t been a success for Democrats.
After all, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Rep. Adam Schiff haven’t gotten any closer to convincing a single Senate Republican to remove the president. It’s highly probable that a Senate trial run by Republicans, with new witnesses and evidence, would further corrode the Democrats’ case.
Liberals will pretend that Senate Republicans are members of a reactionary Trump cult, but if there had been incontrovertible proof of “bribery,” a number of them would be compelled to act differently. No such evidence was provided....
and...
Take Schiff, who once claimed to be privy to hard evidence — which never materialized — of a criminal conspiracy between Trump and the Russian regime.
It's a sham.
And every day, Trump does his very best to be the most disgusting POTUS the world has ever seen. I don’t understand how Republicans put up with him.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostTrump has not been impeached yet.
All this is deflection.
The Dems are simply not to be distracted by such tomfoolery. They know that Republicans will ignore the facts. They cannot sway the Senate but they have a chance with the voters.
And every day, Trump does his very best to be the most disgusting POTUS the world has ever seen. I don’t understand how Republicans put up with him.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seanD View PostDude, someone who has no problem criticizing Trump for his faults on this forum is not what a bubble makes.
Someone who incessantly parrots "orange man bad" 24/7
and that Biden, Hillary, or any other politician from the democratic party can do no wrong
and to suggest otherwise is because they're susceptible to conservative propaganda conspiracies, fake journalist hacks, Russian propaganda or whatever is the very definition of not just someone in a bubble, but a pretty psychotic one at that.Last edited by JimL; 12-02-2019, 04:54 PM.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNot, yet, and the Democrats seem to be rather confused as to whether or how to proceed.
On reflection, while US elections are none of our business, it is quite rude of US voters to inflict Trump on the civilised world.Last edited by firstfloor; 12-02-2019, 05:13 PM.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostOf course they're arguing process, because until there is a fair and impartial process in place, arguing the facts is pointless.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostLet's put it this way: it's futile to haggle over price per pound when dealing with a merchant who blatantly puts his thumb on the scale.
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostI don’t think so.
Trump’s on schedule to be impeached before Christmas.
It’s going to be amazing to watch history being made.
It will be a test of American governance like no other. Will the Senate live up to the founders hopes or not.
Will Trump break the Constitution.
It will either be a wonderful triumph or a disastrous end to the American Century.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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