Take This Impeachment And Shove It...

[Cow Poke]

I don't know who you're hoping to convince that numerous folks around here -- and the right-wing bloc in general -- weren't shouting about jailing Lois Lerner for years or treating her pleading of the Fifth as a tacit admission of guilt. I can't exactly wish you luck in that endeavor but, well, enjoy the weather?

--Sam

Not trying to convince anybody, Sam. Please feel free to continue with your WhatAboutisms.

[Sam]

Not trying to convince anybody, Sam. Please feel free to continue with your WhatAboutisms.

I wouldn't call pointing out how folks here are operating on a clear double standard a "whataboutism", myself. But it does serve to demonstrate the lack of folks' interest in consistent thinking, I guess.

--Sam

[Cow Poke]

I wouldn't call pointing out how folks here are operating on a clear double standard a "whataboutism", myself. But it does serve to demonstrate the lack of folks' interest in consistent thinking, I guess.

--Sam

You just seem to have a problem dealing with reality, Sam -- that's how folks are. Remember Pelosi - even RECENTLY - was insisting that impeachment only be done on a bipartisan basis --- and the views of both sides have switched regarding how things should be compared to the last impeachment.

It's people! Does it make you feel better pointing it out?

[Sam]

You just seem to have a problem dealing with reality, Sam -- that's how folks are. Remember Pelosi - even RECENTLY - was insisting that impeachment only be done on a bipartisan basis --- and the views of both sides have switched regarding how things should be compared to the last impeachment.

It's people! Does it make you feel better pointing it out?

Justin Amash voted for impeachment.

Obviously, it would be better if Republicans considered the factual merits of Trump's behavior and acted appropriately. We know that if Obama had done anything close to this, every single Republican and folks around here would be demanding his removal.

So the question remains: do the facts of the matter show wrongdoing and warrant impeachment?

If one works hard to consider the facts then he can maintain a consistent standard and avoid the pitfalls and embarrassments of crass partisanship.

--Sam

[Cow Poke]

Justin Amash voted for impeachment.

Three Democrats voted against it.

Obviously, it would be better if Republicans considered the factual merits of Trump's behavior and acted appropriately. We know that if Obama had done anything close to this, every single Republican and folks around here would be demanding his removal.

So the question remains: do the facts of the matter show wrongdoing and warrant impeachment?

If one works hard to consider the facts then he can maintain a consistent standard and avoid the pitfalls and embarrassments of crass partisanship.

--Sam

Sam, this LONG AGO became "not about the facts" but about "we gotta get Trump out no matter what".

That became obvious in the extremely partisan way this impeachment came to be, and the ONLY bipartisanship has been Democrats voting with Republicans.

[Sam]

Three Democrats voted against it.

Which does not invalidate that impeachment was, throughout the process, a (barely) bipartisan endeavor. The attack line is simply wrong on the fact and only supportable by forgetting that Justin Amash exists.

Sam, this LONG AGO became "not about the facts" but about "we gotta get Trump out no matter what".

That became obvious in the extremely partisan way this impeachment came to be, and the ONLY bipartisanship has been Democrats voting with Republicans.

Again, Justin Amash voted for impeachment.

Impeachment "came to be" because a career IC employee filed a complaint about Trump's actions that a Trump-appointed ICIG and Trump-appointed DNI deemed to be valid, after which Trump's WH counsel and Attorney General tried to quash and hide from Congress. During the investigation and against the orders of the Trump administration, numerous Trump-appointed officials testified to an "irregular track" effort by a cadre of Trump appointees (along with his personal attorney, working for "free" while cashing $500,000 checks from a Russian-mob-connected oligarch) to pressure Ukraine into investigating his likely campaign rival and a non-existent server supposedly proving that Ukraine, not Russia, hacked the DNC and DSCC.

Stated plainly, it's pretty hard to categorize that chain of events as "extremely partisan".

--Sam

[JimL]

“Why are not letting us comb through your entire life, you must be hiding something!”

Guilty till proven innocent, got to love it.

Oh please, I can only imagine what evils, what corruption would be found if we combed through his entire life. But that's not what's being done.

[JimL]

Steny Hoyer (D-MD), the House Majority Leader^[1], declared that "the House provided President Trump every opportunity to prove his innocence."

"Prove his innocence."

That's right, "Prove his innocence."

Apparently the need of the prosecutor to prove guilt (NOT the accused to prove innocence) is yet another thing that the Democrats are willing to scrap in order to feed their TDS.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]41670[/ATTACH]

1. #2 after Pelosi.

Hoyer didn't say that Trump had to prove his innocence, he said that he was given every opportunity to do so if he so desired. Is it any surprise to you that he chose not to? If you were charged with murder say, and you had evidence to the contrary, you'd be sure to present it to the jury, wouldn't you?

[Cow Poke]

Which does not invalidate that impeachment was, throughout the process, a (barely) bipartisan endeavor. ...

Sure, Sam. The Democrats impeached Trump by an incredibly partisan margin, and the Senate will decline to convict/remove on an incredibly partisan margin.

It's all politics.

[Sam]

Sure, Sam. The Democrats impeached Trump by an incredibly partisan margin, and the Senate will decline to convict/remove on an incredibly partisan margin.

It's all politics.

What politics is Justin Amash -- former Freedom Caucus member and hardline fiscal conservative -- playing?

--Sam

[JimL]

What politics is Justin Amash -- former Freedom Caucus member and hardline fiscal conservative -- playing?

--Sam

That it's all politics is just CP's way of defending Trumps' innocence. In other words there was nothing wrong with what Trump did,, it's just all politics. That way he can just dismiss the evidence with a wave of the hand.

[lilpixieofterror]

Oh please, I can only imagine what evils, what corruption would be found if we combed through his entire life. But that's not what's being done.

3 years of endless investigations later and no evidence of any crimes taking place, but nope, the democrats are not out to get Trump at all. You’re doing a great job of pushing Trump to win in 2020. Last month, one of my friends decided to vote for the first time of her life in 2020 because of Democrat tantrums. Trump should simply not bother to hire anyone to run his campaign, he simply needs to let people like you talk.

[lilpixieofterror]

Questions Sam will likely ignore and change the topic for:

Why does the Trump administration need to hand over yet more documents and yet more witnesses when the Muller investigation already did that?
How many documents and witnesses were presented for the Muller investigation?
Could Congress had gone to the courts and used the courts to force the executive branch to hand over documents and witnesses?
Why was it so important to rush to impeachment because there was no time to follow due process, but now there’s time to sit on it and wait?

Of course, the question you dodged once:

Why is Eric Holder not in jail and why wasn’t Obama impeached, if ‘obstruction of congress’ is such a serious crime?

Sam dodge #2 noted.

[Sam]

3 years of endless investigations later and no evidence of any crimes taking place, but nope, the democrats are not out to get Trump at all. You’re doing a great job of pushing Trump to win in 2020. Last month, one of my friends decided to vote for the first time of her life in 2020 because of Democrat tantrums. Trump should simply not bother to hire anyone to run his campaign, he simply needs to let people like you talk.

Regarding just Trump and not the half-score of Trump associates/employees who plead to or were convicted of crimes:

The House impeachment uncovered numerous potential federal crimes

Trump was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in Michael Cohen's criminal campaign finance crimes by SDNY

The Roger Stone trial clearly suggested that Trump committed perjury in his take-home written answers to the Special Counsel

[Sam]

And, of course, Democrats won the House in 2018. Before that, investigations were done by the Special Counsel's office, which was initiated by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, a Trump appointee, and overseen by Robert Mueller, a Republican.

--Sam