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Thread: O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

  1. #141
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Jim, I'm treating you like an adult, and you indicated you were going to reciprocate. How bout knocking this crap off, OK?

    Not wanting O-Rourke or some extreme leftist nutcase is not the same as "supporting Trump". I said ZERO about Trump, I have never defended his character, not once. So, let's be adults, eh?
    Actually, I will have to admit that you're correct. I thought you said "democrats" when you actually said "O'Rourke and his ilk" which doesn't necessarily include all the other democrats running.

  2. Amen Cow Poke, Teallaura, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  3. #142
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Thank you.
    You bet.

    But none of that is true. You're not going to go to jail for saying you believe marriage should be between a man and a woman, the government isn't going to prevent you from speaking on college campuses, and your sermons aren't going to be subpoenaed without reason, and if there is ligitamate reason for them being subpoenaed, it would be ajudicated.
    Actually, the former mayor of Houston did, indeed, subpoena the sermons, sermon notes and publications of "the Houston Five" pastors, and I ended up spending several days testifying before the Texas Senate about it. In the process of discovery for a lawsuit against the mayor, it was found that there were, indeed, plans to make public statements about homosexuality criminal hate speech. Fortunately, she is no longer mayor.

    I think it is, they're trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
    I'm not. I'm dealing with actual fact.

    Agreed, she didn't go there.
    In that particular exchange, no.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  4. Amen RumTumTugger, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  5. #143
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Actually, I will have to admit that you're correct. I thought you said "democrats" when you actually said "O'Rourke and his ilk" which doesn't necessarily include all the other democrats running.
    Because we've been reading each other's posts with extreme prejudice. I'm trying not to do that anymore.

    I'm imagining sitting at a table with my opponents having a cup of coffee. There are things we would NEVER say to each other eyeball to eyeball that we say in writing on a public forum with our own audiences watching.

    (Do you even drink coffee?)
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  6. Amen Teallaura, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  7. #144
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    ...Actually, the former mayor of Houston did, indeed, subpoena the sermons, sermon notes and publications of "the Houston Five" pastors, and I ended up spending several days testifying before the Texas Senate about it. In the process of discovery for a lawsuit against the mayor, it was found that there were, indeed, plans to make public statements about homosexuality criminal hate speech. Fortunately, she is no longer mayor....
    And lemme throw this in there just for grins...

    When I was testifying before the Texas Senate, there was a young man there who I could only describe as a "stereotypical gay guy" showing his "pride". (don't know how else to describe him)

    He was also there to testify. At the beginning of your testimony, you are required to state your name and whether you are speaking for or against the bill.

    When it was his turn, he introduced himself, then advised the panel he was speaking "for" the bill. One of the Senators asked for clarification - "you mean AGAINST, yes?"

    He responded, "no, I'm speaking FOR the bill".

    He then went on to explain that he had been with a group of other GLBTX activists, and they were laying out their strategy to push their agenda on local churches. They were making assignments for specific churches where a 'gay couple', for example, would go to Rock Prairie Community Church and ask to use the building for their wedding. A lesbian couple, for example, would go to another Church and seek membership. Their plan was to get turned down, so they could file a lawsuit.

    He explained that he was so disgusted with "his own" that he felt a moral obligation to speak FOR the bill, because there is, indeed, a calculated and coordinated attempt to force their own agenda on local churches.

    So, when you say....

    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    But none of that is true.

    I have to respectfully and forcefully disagree.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  8. Amen RumTumTugger, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  9. #145
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    But none of that is true.
    So, this was another of the points that you claimed was not true...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    ...or "we will prevent you from speaking on college campuses"
    Are you prepared to defend your claim that this is not true? I'll be happy to provide some examples.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  10. Amen RumTumTugger, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  11. #146
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Yea, she took a swipe at him, which she shouldn't have because it was a hypothetical,
    Thanks.


    but so what, that had nothing to do with the point she was making which was that people should mind their own business, live according to their own beliefs and principles, and not to be worrying themselves about how others choose to believe and live their lives.
    Why should we take moral advice from a hypocrite? Especially advice that is itself inherently hypocritical. If you (general) don't believe others have the right to express their beliefs in the public square and policy then you don't have that right, either.

    Telling others not to 'force' their beliefs on others in this case is inherently hypocritical as heck.

    But only one side is trying to push their beliefs on the other.
    Yes, your side is.


    Gays aren't telling hetero's who they can an can not marry, it's the other way around. Gays aren't running around telling you that if you decide to get married then you can only marry a woman, are they? But you're telling them that they have to live according to your beliefs.
    That's not the hypocrisy - telling others they have no right to express and advocate for their values and beliefs in public policy while expressing and advocating for your (general) values and beliefs is the height of hypocrisy.

    I have no problem at all with gays advocating for what they believe is right. I have a BIG PROBLEM when they, Warren and anyone else tells other people to sit down and shut up because they haven't the right to freely advocate for what they believe is right. That level of hypocrisy is bad enough but the effect is genuinely fascist.

  12. Amen RumTumTugger, seer, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  13. #147
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Who are giddy with the thought of making their ‘less enlightened’ Christian friends and family submit or else.
    No Lilpix, it is you who want others, including, according to you, "less enlightened Christians," to submit to your christian views such as "same sex partners can't get married." What others believe, and how others choose to live their lives is, frankly, none of your business. And no, the government isn't forcing anything down your throat as far as church activity goes, other than forbidding political activity. You can do that on your own!

  14. #148
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Thanks.



    Why should we take moral advice from a hypocrite? Especially advice that is itself inherently hypocritical. If you (general) don't believe others have the right to express their beliefs in the public square and policy then you don't have that right, either.

    Telling others not to 'force' their beliefs on others in this case is inherently hypocritical as heck.

    Yes, your side is.


    That's not the hypocrisy - telling others they have no right to express and advocate for their values and beliefs in public policy while expressing and advocating for your (general) values and beliefs is the height of hypocrisy.

    I have no problem at all with gays advocating for what they believe is right. I have a BIG PROBLEM when they, Warren and anyone else tells other people to sit down and shut up because they haven't the right to freely advocate for what they believe is right. That level of hypocrisy is bad enough but the effect is genuinely fascist.
    Except that Warren didn't do what you claim she did, she didn't tell him to sit down and shut up. He asked her a question; "what would you answer to someone that said that he believed marriage should only be between a man and a woman? And she told him what she would answer. "Then marry a woman!" You didn't like that answer, you don't agree with her answer, and that's fine for you, but there was nothing hypocritical in her answer, it's the exact same answer that I would give.

  15. #149
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Actually, the former mayor of Houston did, indeed, subpoena the sermons, sermon notes and publications of "the Houston Five" pastors, and I ended up spending several days testifying before the Texas Senate about it. In the process of discovery for a lawsuit against the mayor, it was found that there were, indeed, plans to make public statements about homosexuality criminal hate speech. Fortunately, she is no longer mayor.
    I'm aware of the fact that the Mayor was homosexual herself, unless I'm confusing her with another Texas Mayor, but I know nothing of the case, and the above doesn't really detail what the facts were, so I can't really comment on it. But why may I ask were you called to testify?


    I'm not. I'm dealing with actual fact.
    Good.


    In that particular exchange, no.
    Why, was there a problem with Warren concerning another similar exchange?

  16. #150
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Because we've been reading each other's posts with extreme prejudice. I'm trying not to do that anymore.
    Good idea. Very admirable of you to recognize and admit to that as a fault. And, as you put it in another thread, I'll try to be nice to you as well.
    I'm imagining sitting at a table with my opponents having a cup of coffee. There are things we would NEVER say to each other eyeball to eyeball that we say in writing on a public forum with our own audiences watching.
    That is very true, but then again, not that you're a bad guy, but for that very reason, we probably wouldn't be conversing at all if it weren't for the public forum.
    (Do you even drink coffee?)
    Bigly!

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