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Thread: O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Interesting that in the largely Christian USA (as opposed to the rest of the Western World) you need to “feed 200 poor families a month”. But I guess it enables you to earn merit in heaven so it benefits you in the long-run.
    https://www.foodbank.org.au/hunger-i...acts/?state=au

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  2. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post

    Interesting that in the largely Christian USA (as opposed to the rest of the Western World) you need to “feed 200 poor families a month”. But I guess it enables you to earn merit in heaven so it benefits you in the long-run.
    The point is Tass, we do not ignore our fellow man like you suggested. Just the opposite...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    The point is Tass, we do not ignore our fellow man like you suggested. Just the opposite...
    Actually, your politics shows that you do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Actually, your politics shows that you do.
    That is a lie Jim, you are a liar, please stay out of this thread.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  6. #565
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Actually, your politics shows that you do.
    Bunk. It is the left who pretends to care but who's policies reveal that they don't. By this I mean that the left doesn't seem to care all that much about families and children when you look at the consequences of their actions they say are designed to help them[1].

    Their policies created a permanent underclass as generation after generation became reliant on government handouts. This led to the breakup of families because you can get a substantially bigger check if the father isn't in the picture (virtually all experts agree that a stable family that includes a father is a crucial component for raising children).

    Prior to welfare black families were even more stable than white families but every decade since it has become increasingly dismembered. Now roughly three quarters of blacks are raised in single parent households -- a prescription for a life of poverty and crime[2]

    As former sheriff of Milwaukee County, Wisconsin David Clarke (who is black) has observed:

    There is a government program today for everything in the black community that used to be the responsibility of the individual, such as parenting. Because of this system, many parents have abdicated what is their most important responsibility and turned it over to the government.

    Uncle Sam is now raising their kids.

    We take kids out of the home with early childhood education programs, and the government feeds them breakfast, lunch and dinner, and provides after-school programs.

    Who needs parents in the black community anymore?

    It is a sad reality that more and more parents have turned over their duty to raise their kids to federal and state government programs.

    ...

    The family structure, once a foundation of the black community pre-1960, is in shambles. More black children grow up without a stable father in their lives as black men have been estranged from their children and emasculated by welfare policies.


    One could be forgiven for suspecting that this was by design although it is far more likely the result of unintended consequences that liberals then seized upon as a desirable outcome since it produced a reliable voter base. Liberals continue to profit politically off the illegitimate birthrate spiraling out of control (going from getting 65-70% of the black vote to over 90% -- definitely a motive to callously avoid addressing the problem.





    The left also points to their willingness to shovel money at education willy-nilly without any thought of accountability as further evidence of their support of kids and families. But this seems more motivated by funneling money to teacher's unions who then contribute huge amounts back into Democrat coffers[3] than anything else. Am I being too cynical? Then explain if educating children was the goal why do liberals tend to fight tooth and nail against any ideas to improve education that doesn't include massive transfers of money such as charter schools and school choice[4]?

    And if liberal policies are the best way to improve education then why are they in complete control of the worst school districts and systems in spite of massive outlays of money?

    I cannot help thinking about how when, back in the mid-80s a federal judge ordered that billions of dollars be spent upgrading Kansas City's schools. The educrats were giddy with delight. They set about adding enormous gyms to the schools, built an Olympic swimming pool, TV studios, a planetarium, a zoo, and even a wildlife sanctuary. After burning through $2 Billion it was discovered that what they did not get was a single new textbook to replace the worn-out sadly outdated ones they had. And IIRC not a single new teacher was hired although a lot more administrators were[5].

    Results? The schools got worse. Markedly so. Something like five years later the Kansas City school district failed 11 performance standards and lost its academic accreditation for the first time in the district’s history.

    The top five "states"[6] when it comes to total Elementary/Secondary Public School spending/student were from the top down New York, Alaska, Washington D.C., Connecticut and New Jersey but in 2017 they respectively placed 40th, 31st, 51st, 44th and 38th. Yet the state with lowest total Elementary/Secondary Public School spending/student, Utah,which spent about a third or less for each student as those at the top was 10th in SAT scores. The one with the fifth lowest expenditure, Mississippi, ranked 9th.

    Overall, the trend for SAT scores reveals that most of the high spending states are doing bad in that measure whereas most of the lower spending states have higher scores. So if throwing money at the problem is the solution then why did many of the states with the lowest per student expenditures do better than many of those with the highest per student expenditures?

    This sorta blows a hole in the notion that spending more money means better results, doesn't it.

    Interestingly, in 2000 the state with the highest average SAT score was North Dakota, which ranked 41st in per student spending but has since began spending a lot more moving up to 15th in that category and yet has also dropped to 6th for SAT scores.

    Further (the last time I checked), Americans spend more on schooling than the vast majority of countries that outscore us on the international tests.








    1. In fact during the last recession they marked success by the number of people now getting handouts.

    2. Even the liberal Brookings Institute agrees saying that if someone graduates from high school, works a full-time job, and waits until twenty-one to get married and have children, his or her chance of succeeding in life and becoming a member of the middle class rises to 76% but if they don't finish high school, don’t marry, and has a baby before the age of twenty-one, their chance of becoming or remaining poor soars to 74%.

    3. For instance, according to Open Secrets, the American Federation of Teachers donated $7,919,897 to politicians and political groups with $7,888,355 going to Democrats and liberals (99.9%) and $6500 to Republicans and conservatives

    4. A perfect example of this is what happened at Mollie E. Ray Elementary in Orlando, Florida as the 2002-2003 school year began. The school had received an "F" rating for the past two years (1 of only 10 schools to "earn" such a distinction), as judged annually by the state of Florida so the victims of such failed schools are allowed to apply for vouchers to help them escape. So how did the school react? To start, students were met by teachers wearing T-shirts proclaiming "F = Fantastic." Getting an "F" grade was now considered a positive thing. The union educrats choose to brainwash young minds with Orwellian double-speak into thinking that flunking is actually a good thing. Then school officials attacked the scores of parents, who did choose to opt out, for "abandoning" their schools in a time of need. Excuse me. Apparently some parents had the temerity to want the best for their children rather than sacrifice them on the altar of public "edjumakatun" and were savaged for it. Still it would have been interesting come Report Card time when the little darlings still stuck in that unrepentantly failed school explained this "F = Fantastic" concept to their parents. Trouble is, too many might fallen for it.

    5. When I started High School it was so overcrowded not only were there nearly a dozen trailers setting in the parking lot being used as classrooms but we had to go in shifts with juniors and seniors going in the morning and freshmen and sophomores in the afternoon. Yet we only had 4 principals. Now after expanding the building and several new schools being built, resulting in a smaller school population, there are somewhere between 10 and 15 principals.

    6. this includes Washington D.C. which is not a state.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  7. Amen Cow Poke, seer, Teallaura amen'd this post.
  8. #566
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Bunk. It is the left who pretends to care but who's policies reveal that they don't. By this I mean that the left doesn't seem to care all that much about families and children when you look at the consequences of their actions they say are designed to help them[1].

    Their policies created a permanent underclass as generation after generation became reliant on government handouts. This led to the breakup of families because you can get a substantially bigger check if the father isn't in the picture (virtually all experts agree that a stable family that includes a father is a crucial component for raising children).

    Prior to welfare black families were even more stable than white families but every decade since it has become increasingly dismembered. Now roughly three quarters of blacks are raised in single parent households -- a prescription for a life of poverty and crime[2]

    As former sheriff of Milwaukee County, Wisconsin David Clarke (who is black) has observed:

    There is a government program today for everything in the black community that used to be the responsibility of the individual, such as parenting. Because of this system, many parents have abdicated what is their most important responsibility and turned it over to the government.

    Uncle Sam is now raising their kids.

    We take kids out of the home with early childhood education programs, and the government feeds them breakfast, lunch and dinner, and provides after-school programs.

    Who needs parents in the black community anymore?

    It is a sad reality that more and more parents have turned over their duty to raise their kids to federal and state government programs.

    ...

    The family structure, once a foundation of the black community pre-1960, is in shambles. More black children grow up without a stable father in their lives as black men have been estranged from their children and emasculated by welfare policies.


    One could be forgiven for suspecting that this was by design although it is far more likely the result of unintended consequences that liberals then seized upon as a desirable outcome since it produced a reliable voter base. Liberals continue to profit politically off the illegitimate birthrate spiraling out of control (going from getting 65-70% of the black vote to over 90% -- definitely a motive to callously avoid addressing the problem.





    The left also points to their willingness to shovel money at education willy-nilly without any thought of accountability as further evidence of their support of kids and families. But this seems more motivated by funneling money to teacher's unions who then contribute huge amounts back into Democrat coffers[3] than anything else. Am I being too cynical? Then explain if educating children was the goal why do liberals tend to fight tooth and nail against any ideas to improve education that doesn't include massive transfers of money such as charter schools and school choice[4]?

    And if liberal policies are the best way to improve education then why are they in complete control of the worst school districts and systems in spite of massive outlays of money?

    I cannot help thinking about how when, back in the mid-80s a federal judge ordered that billions of dollars be spent upgrading Kansas City's schools. The educrats were giddy with delight. They set about adding enormous gyms to the schools, built an Olympic swimming pool, TV studios, a planetarium, a zoo, and even a wildlife sanctuary. After burning through $2 Billion it was discovered that what they did not get was a single new textbook to replace the worn-out sadly outdated ones they had. And IIRC not a single new teacher was hired although a lot more administrators were[5].

    Results? The schools got worse. Markedly so. Something like five years later the Kansas City school district failed 11 performance standards and lost its academic accreditation for the first time in the district’s history.

    The top five "states"[6] when it comes to total Elementary/Secondary Public School spending/student were from the top down New York, Alaska, Washington D.C., Connecticut and New Jersey but in 2017 they respectively placed 40th, 31st, 51st, 44th and 38th. Yet the state with lowest total Elementary/Secondary Public School spending/student, Utah,which spent about a third or less for each student as those at the top was 10th in SAT scores. The one with the fifth lowest expenditure, Mississippi, ranked 9th.

    Overall, the trend for SAT scores reveals that most of the high spending states are doing bad in that measure whereas most of the lower spending states have higher scores. So if throwing money at the problem is the solution then why did many of the states with the lowest per student expenditures do better than many of those with the highest per student expenditures?

    This sorta blows a hole in the notion that spending more money means better results, doesn't it.

    Interestingly, in 2000 the state with the highest average SAT score was North Dakota, which ranked 41st in per student spending but has since began spending a lot more moving up to 15th in that category and yet has also dropped to 6th for SAT scores.

    Further (the last time I checked), Americans spend more on schooling than the vast majority of countries that outscore us on the international tests.








    1. In fact during the last recession they marked success by the number of people now getting handouts.

    2. Even the liberal Brookings Institute agrees saying that if someone graduates from high school, works a full-time job, and waits until twenty-one to get married and have children, his or her chance of succeeding in life and becoming a member of the middle class rises to 76% but if they don't finish high school, don’t marry, and has a baby before the age of twenty-one, their chance of becoming or remaining poor soars to 74%.

    3. For instance, according to Open Secrets, the American Federation of Teachers donated $7,919,897 to politicians and political groups with $7,888,355 going to Democrats and liberals (99.9%) and $6500 to Republicans and conservatives

    4. A perfect example of this is what happened at Mollie E. Ray Elementary in Orlando, Florida as the 2002-2003 school year began. The school had received an "F" rating for the past two years (1 of only 10 schools to "earn" such a distinction), as judged annually by the state of Florida so the victims of such failed schools are allowed to apply for vouchers to help them escape. So how did the school react? To start, students were met by teachers wearing T-shirts proclaiming "F = Fantastic." Getting an "F" grade was now considered a positive thing. The union educrats choose to brainwash young minds with Orwellian double-speak into thinking that flunking is actually a good thing. Then school officials attacked the scores of parents, who did choose to opt out, for "abandoning" their schools in a time of need. Excuse me. Apparently some parents had the temerity to want the best for their children rather than sacrifice them on the altar of public "edjumakatun" and were savaged for it. Still it would have been interesting come Report Card time when the little darlings still stuck in that unrepentantly failed school explained this "F = Fantastic" concept to their parents. Trouble is, too many might fallen for it.

    5. When I started High School it was so overcrowded not only were there nearly a dozen trailers setting in the parking lot being used as classrooms but we had to go in shifts with juniors and seniors going in the morning and freshmen and sophomores in the afternoon. Yet we only had 4 principals. Now after expanding the building and several new schools being built, resulting in a smaller school population, there are somewhere between 10 and 15 principals.

    6. this includes Washington D.C. which is not a state.
    Oops. Just noticed seer's request for little jimmy to leave the thread. Maybe we can start a derail thread where this can be moved.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  9. Amen Cow Poke, Teallaura amen'd this post.
  10. #567
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    The point is Tass, we do not ignore our fellow man like you suggested. Just the opposite...
    Then you need to explain why the richest nation on earth, only comes 24th on the IHDI (Human Development Index), which is a composite statistic of life-expectancy, education, and per capita income.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y-adjusted_HDI

    The nations that head the index, as opposed to the actively Christian USA, are the highly secular ones with comprehensive welfare safety-nets and benefits.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  11. #568
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Then you need to explain why the richest nation on earth, only comes 24th on the IHDI (Human Development Index), which is a composite statistic of life-expectancy, education, and per capita income.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y-adjusted_HDI

    The nations that head the index, as opposed to the actively Christian USA, are the highly secular ones with comprehensive welfare safety-nets and benefits.
    Because Tass, we do not largely lean towards socialism or wealth redistribution. And every country had its own particular problems. But that is not the point Tass, name one other group that has helped their fellow man more than Christians. And you would simply would not have had the cultures of the West that you so laud without a Christian history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_o...n_civilization
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  12. #569
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Because Tass, we do not largely lean towards socialism or wealth redistribution.
    ALL the free-world countries provide a welfare safety net to some degree. Even the USA, with its tendency towards unbridled capitalism has Medicaid. But, compared to most other countries, US welfare benefits are grossly insufficient to meet the needs of the poor.

    And every country had its own particular problems. But that is not the point Tass, name one other group that has helped their fellow man more than Christians.
    Nevertheless, the nations that head the Human Development Index today, as opposed to the actively Christian USA, are the highly secular ones with a large percentage of atheists.

    And you would simply would not have had the cultures of the West that you so laud without a Christian history.
    We could have done without the slavery, the denigration of women, the religious wars of Europe, The Inquisitions, the Crusades and the destruction of indigenous cultures brought about by Christianity.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    That is a lie Jim, you are a liar, please stay out of this thread.
    No, that is my opinion, seer. When you support a government that doesn't care for the needy, then just because you donate a loaf of bread or some canned goods, though it might make you feel good about yourself, it doesn't mean you're not ignoring your fellow man.

    Now I will gladly stay out of your thread.

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