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Thread: O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

  1. #491
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Well I actually did attend Southern Baptist in my town for a couple of years. I never saw any slaves though, they must keep them in the basement...
    Right next to the past Dead Presidents and their personal opinions.
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  2. #492
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    The point is Jim why would God's thoughts being eternal prevent Him from acting in time? If the B Theory of time is correct all your past, present and future thoughts exist simultaneously, yet you still think and act in series. But like I said we can not comprehend how God thinks, saying His thoughts are eternal tells us nothing about how those thoughts are used or ordered.
    I don't believe you're thinking this through, seer. If the B-theory is true, then time is an illusion and like with the eternal nature of an eternal god, nothing changes. Thoughts are an action only if they are temporal, if they are eternal then they, in correlatation with the B-theory of time, are an illusion.

  3. #493
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    I don't believe you're thinking this through, seer. If the B-theory is true, then time is an illusion and like with the eternal nature of an eternal god, nothing changes. Thoughts are an action only if they are temporal, if they are eternal then they, in correlatation with the B-theory of time, are an illusion.
    Yet you actually do think and act in series. You do it everyday, it is not an illusion that you had a headache yesterday and you don't today. But like I said we have no idea what time really is, we have no idea how God's thinks or how He interacts with the temporal. Yet after all He created the temporal.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  4. #494
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Yet you actually do think and act in series. You do it everyday, it is not an illusion that you had a headache yesterday and you don't today. But like I said we have no idea what time really is, we have no idea how God's thinks or how He interacts with the temporal. Yet after all He created the temporal.
    seer, again it's either one or the other, of time, or not of time, and gods thought process is either eternal, i.e. timeless, in which case you can't call it a process at all, or it is temporal which concludes to an infinite regress.

  5. #495
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    First Tass, I know of no Christian who thinks that adultery is a moral good.
    That’s not what I said. I said that social values among Christians re divorce and remarriage (adultery according to Jesus) have changed significantly. NB the Christian Right's support of multiply divorced adulterer Donald Trump, a far cry from a generation ago when Edward VIII was forced off the throne over the issue of divorce.

    Second, you can not justify much of the slavery in the West by Scripture
    But slave-owning Christians DID justify slavery by scripture. For centuries.

    So why was their opinion of their personal significance more correct than those who took their lives? Objective it wasn't, nor can it be.
    It is a fact of nature that we DO value our own lives and those of our loved ones regardless of the disregard of genocidal external forces.

    It is not about what you subscribe to or not, existential nihilism is the logical outcome of atheism.
    We do not live our lives according to the logical dictates of a philosophical theory, whether we are theist OR atheist. Rather we have evolved to survive as cooperative social animals.

    So a sheep for a sheep is just. So a life for a life would be just. Good.
    Sure, when it comes to sheep. NOT people. Although you as a Christian are compelled to “turn the other cheek” in all instances.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  6. #496
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    That’s not what I said. I said that social values among Christians re divorce and remarriage (adultery according to Jesus) have changed significantly. NB the Christian Right's support of multiply divorced adulterer Donald Trump, a far cry from a generation ago when Edward VIII was forced off the throne over the issue of divorce.
    Tass which Christians believe that adultery is a moral good? I certainly don't.


    But slave-owning Christians DID justify slavery by scripture. For centuries.
    And I used Scripture to show why they were wrong. But really - so what - in your world it is all relative anyway...


    It is a fact of nature that we DO value our own lives and those of our loved ones regardless of the disregard of genocidal external forces.
    So human significance is merely a matter of opinion. You like steak, I like lobster.


    We do not live our lives according to the logical dictates of a philosophical theory, whether we are theist OR atheist. Rather we have evolved to survive as cooperative social animals.
    I'm not speaking of how you live your lives but the logical outcome of atheism - existential nihilism.



    Sure, when it comes to sheep. NOT people. Although you as a Christian are compelled to “turn the other cheek” in all instances.
    Why is a sheep for a sheep just and not a human life for a human life? The concept holds logically...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  7. #497
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    seer, again it's either one or the other, of time, or not of time, and gods thought process is either eternal, i.e. timeless, in which case you can't call it a process at all, or it is temporal which concludes to an infinite regress.
    This is my bottom line Jim, I don't think you or I or any one knows enough about time, eternity or God's though process to come to any firm conclusions.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  8. #498
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    This is my bottom line Jim, I don't think you or I or any one knows enough about time, eternity or God's though process to come to any firm conclusions.
    Well, then you'll have to concede that your arguments against an infinite regress are moot since if gods thoughts, or acts for that matter, are temporal, they too would result in an infinite regress.

  9. #499
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Well, then you'll have to concede that your arguments against an infinite regress are moot since if gods thoughts, or acts for that matter, are temporal, they too would result in an infinite regress.
    Jim, 'we don't know' does not logically lead to the concession of a hypothetical, especially one that rests on the assumption of the unknown as a known.

  10. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  11. #500
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Jim, 'we don't know' does not logically lead to the concession of a hypothetical, especially one that rests on the assumption of the unknown as a known.
    We have two alternatives, Tea, temporal or eternal. That is why believers argue that god is eternal and the believed creation is temporal. The temporal process leads to an infinite regress, it's opposite, the eternal has no process, it doesn't change. If it does change, then it's not eternal, and would also result in an infinite regress.

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