O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

[Teallaura]

We have two alternatives, Tea, temporal or eternal. That is why believers argue that god is eternal and the believed creation is temporal. The temporal process leads to an infinite regress, it's opposite, the eternal has no process, it doesn't change. If it does change, then it's not eternal, and would also result in an infinite regress.

That's a much too simplistic view of eternity, Jim. Remember Steady State was a theory predicated on the universe being eternal, but not unchanging.

[JimL]

That's a much too simplistic view of eternity, Jim. Remember Steady State was a theory predicated on the universe being eternal, but not unchanging.

But that doesn't change a thing, Tea. An eternal entity that changes would still lead to an infinite regress.

[Teallaura]

But that doesn't change a thing, Tea. An eternal entity that changes would still lead to an infinite regress.

I wasn't paying attention to most of your argument with Seer - an infinite regress on what?

[JimL]

I wasn't paying attention to most of your argument with Seer - an infinite regress on what?

On anything that changes whether as in physical actions or mental decisions.

[Teallaura]

On anything that changes whether as in physical actions or mental decisions.

I don't follow - how does that lead to infinite regression? Is this related to omniscience?

[JimL]

I don't follow - how does that lead to infinite regression? Is this related to omniscience?

The believers argument is that the universe had to be created, had to have a beginning, because otherwise, if it is eternal, its cause and effect nature would go on ad-infinitum, an infinite regression, which is an impossibility.

[Teallaura]

The believers argument is that the universe had to be created, had to have a beginning, because otherwise, if it is eternal, its cause and effect nature would go on ad-infinitum, an infinite regression, which is an impossibility.

Oh - no, I've never seen that variant. Looks more like it's related to the idea of a cyclic Big Bang.

[Tassman]

Tass which Christians believe that adultery is a moral good? I certainly don't.

That’s not what I said. What I said was that social values among Christians re divorce and remarriage have changed significantly over time. In short, your so-called God-given unchangeable moral values on this and many other things demonstrably change.

And I used Scripture to show why they were wrong.

But the Christians who owned slaves for centuries disagree. They justified their slave ownership by scripture. See above re God’s so-called unchanging morality.

But really - so what - in your world it is all relative anyway...

It is all relative in your world too, witness the changing moral attitudes re slavery over the millennia.

So human significance is merely a matter of opinion. You like steak, I like lobster.

How silly you are. Human significance is NOT “merely a matter of opinion”. It has evolved as an essential part of our genetic make-up.

I'm not speaking of how you live your lives but the logical outcome of atheism - existential nihilism.

The “logical” and biological outcome of ALL life is death and decay. But what matters to us is that we have evolved to survive as cooperative social animals. Our lives are important to us.

Why is a sheep for a sheep just and not a human life for a human life? The concept holds logically...

Except that you as a Christian are compelled to “turn the other cheek” in all instances.

[seer]

I wasn't paying attention to most of your argument with Seer - an infinite regress on what?

An infinite regression of past physical events that led to this present universe.

[seer]

Oh - no, I've never seen that variant. Looks more like it's related to the idea of a cyclic Big Bang.

Yes it could be a cyclic series of big bangs and crunches or a infinite series of events within a multiverse that give rise to smaller bubble universes within the larger multiverse.