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Thread: O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

  1. #421
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    So it IS a possibility, and we're just negotiating!
    No, but I was going to say 'get thee behind me, Satan' until I realized I'd have to first be tempted. Then I wondered if that was even possible - so far, no.

  2. #422
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    No, but I was going to say 'get thee behind me, Satan' until I realized I'd have to first be tempted. Then I wondered if that was even possible - so far, no.
    Hot fudge - thick and gooey hot fudge.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  3. #423
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Well you can look at it that way! I just say that God is supremely powerful...
    Omnipotence means God is all-powerful. This means God has supreme power and has no limitations. But you have claimed that God is limited in that he cannot lie. Therefore he does NOT have supreme power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    And the reason He cannot lie is because He's powerful enough to impose that limitation on Himself for our good.
    That’s as ludicrous as a man pulling himself up by the straps of his own boots.
    Last edited by Tassman; 11-07-2019 at 10:46 PM.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  4. #424
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Well of course Tass, if a person believes there is a heaven to be won and a hell to be shunned that would be his dominate concern.
    IOW a “dominate concern” that takes priority over the health, prosperity, and safety of a person's community and loved ones.

    But of course this is the only life for the atheist so he would want to grab all he can in this life.
    Or, to put it in another way, giving priority to the health, prosperity, and safety of one’s community and loved ones as opposed to regarding them as secondary to eternal life with a fictional deity in an imaginary heaven.

    No Tass, there have not varied. Biblical morality is quote consistent between the Testaments.
    Your so-called morally eternal, unchanging divine laws are NOT eternal and unchanging in practice. They have varied enormously over the course of Judeo/Christian history and invariably justified by an appeal to scripture.

    But again, in your world there is no logical justification for any moral opinion
    Nor, in your world. You just cherry pick the suitable scripture passages that justify current social values, which in turn merely reflect the views of the society in which you live.

    - you might as well argue that vanilla ice cream is superior to chocolate
    OR that slave ownership is superior to the abolition of slave ownership.

    BS - show me where the social mores of the day have changed my view of Scripture.
    Who says YOUR view of scripture is the correct one? ALL Christians have believed they’ve got it right but history demonstrates that they have got it wrong. Centuries of slave ownership spring to mind.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  5. #425
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    IOW a “dominate concern” that takes priority over the health, prosperity, and safety of a person's community and loved ones.
    You mean takes priority over what you see as important. Tell us Tass, how have you personally helped the poor and needy? I can't tell you how much my Church over the years have helped the poor with food and clothing.



    Or, to put it in another way, giving priority to the health, prosperity, and safety of one’s community and loved ones as opposed to regarding them as secondary to eternal life with a fictional deity in an imaginary heaven.
    Tass when my Church helps the needy we do not ask if they are Christian, it isn't even a consideration. But if atheism is true, the poor, like the rest of us, are insignificant creatures on an insignificant plant in an ultimately doomed universe - with no more inherent worth than a housefly. You, what we do, all our works, are meaningless in the end, slated for dust.


    Your so-called morally eternal, unchanging divine laws are NOT eternal and unchanging in practice. They have varied enormously over the course of Judeo/Christian history and invariably justified by an appeal to scripture.
    Yes men can and do get things wrong, or misunderstand or use even the most sublime moral teachings for our own selfish ends - but in my world universal moral truths exist, in your world they don't. You could never formulate a logical argument for any moral evil being universally wrong. Everything is culturally relative. So when you call certain Biblical laws "primitive" you are just talking out your butt. It has NO meaning.


    Who says YOUR view of scripture is the correct one? ALL Christians have believed they’ve got it right but history demonstrates that they have got it wrong. Centuries of slave ownership spring to mind.
    Who says that slavery in wrong? It certainly isn't in your world. So what are you talking about?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  6. #426
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    That’s as ludicrous as a man pulling himself up by the straps of his own boots.
    Yet, that's actually an acceptable expression and totally understood by those of us who actually have.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  7. #427
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Omnipotence means God is all-powerful. This means God has supreme power and has no limitations. But you have claimed that God is limited in that he cannot lie. Therefore he does NOT have supreme power.
    Of course He has supreme power, which does not mean that He can do anything:

    Supreme:

    highest in rank or authority; paramount; sovereign; chief.
    of the highest quality, degree, character, importance, etc.:
    greatest, utmost, or extreme:
    last or final; ultimate.
    God qualifies...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  8. #428
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Of course He has supreme power, which does not mean that He can do anything:



    God qualifies...
    It means that he can do anything that it is possible to do, and it is possible to lie. So, if, as you assert, he can not lie, then he not only isn't omnipotent., he is determined, no free will.

  9. #429
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    It means that he can do anything that it is possible to do, and it is possible to lie. So, if, as you assert, he can not lie, then he not only isn't omnipotent., he is determined, no free will.
    Again Jim, I said God is supremely powerful. I do not use the term omnipotent. Second, because He can not lie does not mean that He is determined in all areas. You by nature can not flap your arms and fly, does not mean you are totally determined? Your argument is not logical.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  10. #430
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Hot fudge - thick and gooey hot fudge.
    That's mean to the bug.

    And

  11. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.

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