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Thread: O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

  1. #21
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Our Church has been fully prepared for the last year to operate tax exempt excepted.
    I've been thinking for quite a while -- like, decades -- that one of the worst things churches ever did was accept tax-exempt status. Whatever the original intent, it has long since turned into a backdoor way to nullify the First Amendment.
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  2. #22
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    Why do you think that God is defined by a worldly book? I know that the book makes big claims about itself, but it is possible to go beyond the book. Think of a Christian as someone who is afraid to let go of apron strings. That might explain your predicament.
    Hmmmmm...... Predicament: A situation, especially an unpleasant, troublesome, or trying one, from which extrication is difficult.

    Let's see, I've been happily married to a wonderful woman for over 40 years, I have two wonderful daughters, three super grandkids, I have a job where I get great joy every day from serving and helping others, I am surrounded by people who love me....

    Help, I really need extricated!!!!
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    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    This is exactly why we are headed for a Civil War...
    You think the government stopping subsidizing churches and mosques is rational grounds for slaughtering your fellow countrymen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Who needs the Constitution as long as leftist fascists get their way, huh?
    I'm pretty sure no part of the constitution requires the secular government to subsidize religious organisations, which is what a tax-exempt status effectively is. In fact, insofar as it means you are essentially taking money from other taypayers and putting it toward your own particular religious organisation which they may well object to, I am surprised it hasn't already been struck down as unconstitutional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I think it's only a matter of time before Churches lose their tax-exempt status
    It hasn't happened in New Zealand yet, and we're a majority-non-religious country. So it's probably highly unlikely to happen in the US in the foreseeable future.

  4. Amen EvoUK amen'd this post.
  5. #24
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    You can think of a Christian any way you want to. I will define God by His word where He has defined Himself. His word is my final authority, and the world can call it a "predicament" or "apron strings" or anything else it likes, but that is pure unbelief and it will send you to hell.
    That God is a mechanical God; all personhood has been stripped away and you simply have it repeat things on your command by opening the pages of the book. It was written about a world that has disappeared and your effort to map it onto this world is futile. There is a character in the book, but I question whether that character is the present God. Your God is bound, mine is free and more perfect than yours.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
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    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Hmmmmm...... Predicament: A situation, especially an unpleasant, troublesome, or trying one, from which extrication is difficult.

    Let's see, I've been happily married to a wonderful woman for over 40 years, I have two wonderful daughters, three super grandkids, I have a job where I get great joy every day from serving and helping others, I am surrounded by people who love me....

    Help, I really need extricated!!!!
    You and me are both blessed, CP. The fact that you lift up others around you is commendable.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  7. #26
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    It hasn't happened in New Zealand yet, and we're a majority-non-religious country. So it's probably highly unlikely to happen in the US in the foreseeable future.
    Yes, you don't have a whole lot of mass shootings, so it's highly unlikely to happen in the US in the foreseeable future.
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  8. #27
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    You and me are both blessed, CP. The fact that you lift up others around you is commendable.
    And the "worldly book" (that you so frequently denigrate) and the Love of Jesus taught therein - that's why I am like I am.
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  9. Amen Teallaura, mossrose amen'd this post.
  10. #28
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    That God is a mechanical God; all personhood has been stripped away and you simply have it repeat things on your command by opening the pages of the book. It was written about a world that has disappeared and your effort to map it onto this world is futile. There is a character in the book, but I question whether that character is the present God. Your God is bound, mine is free and more perfect than yours.
    Your inability to understand Scripture does not limit God.

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  11. #29
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    ....

    I'm pretty sure no part of the constitution requires the secular government to subsidize religious organisations, which is what a tax-exempt status effectively is. In fact, insofar as it means you are essentially taking money from other taypayers and putting it toward your own particular religious organisation which they may well object to, I am surprised it hasn't already been struck down as unconstitutional.

    ...
    Because your logic is totally backwards - the exact opposite of what the Supreme Court has held and reaffirmed time and again. The power to tax is the power to destroy. The First Amendment guarantees Freedom of Worship and the Establishment Clause prohibits expressly Congress from establishing a national religion. Together, they require government keep its paws off religion, shy of very specific, very literal, imminent dangers to life and limb and even then the intervention must be minimal. This is the actual meaning of Jefferson's 'separation of church and state'. Government literally has no right to tax churches at all.

    And 'subsidy' doesn't mean 'no taxation'.

  12. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  13. #30
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    I've been thinking for quite a while -- like, decades -- that one of the worst things churches ever did was accept tax-exempt status. Whatever the original intent, it has long since turned into a backdoor way to nullify the First Amendment.
    The churches didn't accept it - they fought to keep their freedom from government interference.

    The problem isn't the status - it's the government encroachment.

  14. Amen Cow Poke, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.

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