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Thread: O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

  1. #541
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Because if they, i.e. a gods thoughts, are eternal, then there can be no process called "thinking". Thinking is a process that takes place in time and the resultant thoughts/reasons/actions are therefore temporal in nature as well. If you want to argue that a god thinks and reacts to temporal events then said gods nature would need be defined as temporal as well. Also, with respect to knowledge, if a god knows your name, your dogs name etc... and has known those things as well as all things eternally, then not only is he not thinking or reacting to temporal events, that eternal knowledge would simply mirror temporal events.
    I don't believe any of us understand this Jim, William Craig makes some good points.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfn8CJarrSE&t=328s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbirUdSnZLU
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  2. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    I don't believe any of us understand this Jim, William Craig makes some good points.
    Are you sure you understand William Craig's points, then?
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    Are you sure you understand William Craig's points, then?
    More or less, he believes that God is eternal but not timeless after He creates the universe, then he is temporal.

    https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writ...-and-creation/
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  4. #544
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Tass, that has nothing to do with the fact that Christians still think that adultery is a sin.
    In that case you should NOT show support for “sinful adultery” by voting an adulterer into high office. No more than you believe that Christian cake-shops should show support for “sinful” gay marriage by making them wedding cakes.

    And who were Christians supposed to vote for Hillary? Don't be daft...
    Of course. If they were seriously concerned about the sin of adultery.

    What are you taking about? I can show the salve owners the texts on manstealing - whether they repent is on them.
    Just as the slave owners for centuries could show you the texts that justified slavery. So, who’s got it right? You or them?

    Right and when one group of organic algorithms slaughters another group of organic algorithms - no biggy.
    Nevertheless, the victims of mass slaughtering instinctively believe themselves to be significant individuals. Are they wrong?

    Again Tass, you brought up turning the other cheek, and that has nothing to do with what the State does or doesn't do. And an eye for an eye, in context, is about not taking personal action. And a life for a life is just.
    So, even though Jesus said NOT to demand an “eye for an eye” you as a Christian still support capital punishment, i.e. a “life for a life”. What a hypocrite.

    And what is the big deal - we are merely assemblages of organic algorithms...
    It’s a “big deal” for us even though we know that we are merely intelligent organic algorithms.

    What we DON’T "know" is your escapist fantasy that we are creations of a fictional deity made for eternal life. That’s just wishful thinking.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  5. #545
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    I don't believe any of us understand this Jim, William Craig makes some good points.
    Why would take WL Craig seriously? He’s just philosopher/apologist with a starting position of the Talbot School of Theology Doctrinal Statement where he's on the faculty:

    “The Bible, consisting of all the books of the Old and New Testaments, is the Word of God, a supernaturally given revelation from God Himself, concerning Himself, His being, nature, character, will and purposes; and concerning man, his nature, need and duty and destiny. The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are without error or misstatement in their moral and spiritual teaching and record of historical facts. They are without error or defect of any kind….” https://www.biola.edu/about/theological-positions

    So, we know in advance where his arguments will end up.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  6. Amen JimL amen'd this post.
  7. #546
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    In that case you should NOT show support for “sinful adultery” by voting an adulterer into high office. No more than you believe that Christian cake-shops should show support for “sinful” gay marriage by making them wedding cakes.
    So I should vote for a rabid abortion supporter who would have appointed rabid leftist judges? You really are daft Tass...


    Of course. If they were seriously concerned about the sin of adultery.
    And we are not equally concerned, or more so, about the killing of millions of unborn humans?


    Just as the slave owners for centuries could show you the texts that justified slavery. So, who’s got it right? You or them?
    Actually no, they could not justify slavery based on kidnapping from Scripture.

    Nevertheless, the victims of mass slaughtering instinctively believe themselves to be significant individuals. Are they wrong?
    I guess we all have our myths...


    So, even though Jesus said NOT to demand an “eye for an eye” you as a Christian still support capital punishment, i.e. a “life for a life”. What a hypocrite.
    Of course I do (in certain cases) since Christ is not giving rules for the State. I support the State meting out justice (not me) and as we discussed, a life for a life is just.

    It’s a “big deal” for us even though we know that we are merely intelligent organic algorithms.

    What we DON’T "know" is your escapist fantasy that we are creations of a fictional deity made for eternal life. That’s just wishful thinking.
    You mean like your fantasy that you actually have significance?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  8. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    I don't believe any of us understand this Jim, William Craig makes some good points.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfn8CJarrSE&t=328s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbirUdSnZLU
    When you don't understand a thing, it's best to apply logic and go with that.

  9. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    When you don't understand a thing, it's best to apply logic and go with that.
    No Jim, logic is only as valid as the facts that we have and on this issue we don't have nearly all the facts.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  10. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    No Jim, logic is only as valid as the facts that we have and on this issue we don't have nearly all the facts.
    That there are other facts is only a belief of yours, go with the facts you know.

  11. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    That there are other facts is only a belief of yours, go with the facts you know.
    Well no Jim we are speaking of an eternal being, how He thinks, how He interacts with the temporal, etc... We don't know these things.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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