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O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    That is very true, but then again, not that you're a bad guy, but for that very reason, we probably wouldn't be conversing at all if it weren't for the public forum.
    Actually, in the "church" part of my life, I'm mostly around conservatives. In the "faith based missions" part of my life, I am overwhelmingly surrounded by liberals - a number of whom are quite vocal and "in your face" about it.

    I get along with them just fine. I do find, however, that these liberals, when they discover I'm a conservative, are less likely to hang with me than I am with them.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
      Except that Warren didn't do what you claim she did, she didn't tell him to sit down and shut up. He asked her a question; "what would you answer to someone that said that he believed marriage should only be between a man and a woman? And she told him what she would answer. "Then marry a woman!" You didn't like that answer, you don't agree with her answer, and that's fine for you, but there was nothing hypocritical in her answer, it's the exact same answer that I would give.
      No, she didn't - but that was your original interpretation of what she did do, remember?

      What she did do was hypocritical for a different reason - and you already agreed with me on that.


      Edit: Okay, I misread your earlier post - you said hypothetical and I read it as hypocritical. So you hadn't conceded that point yet - my bad.

      I'll give a more detailed answer tomorrow - too sleepy now.
      Last edited by Teallaura; 10-17-2019, 09:16 PM.
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

      My Personal Blog

      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

      Quill Sword

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Actually, in the "church" part of my life, I'm mostly around conservatives. In the "faith based missions" part of my life, I am overwhelmingly surrounded by liberals - a number of whom are quite vocal and "in your face" about it.

        I get along with them just fine. I do find, however, that these liberals, when they discover I'm a conservative, are less likely to hang with me than I am with them.
        Well, don't talk politics, don't let them know your on the dark side, and they'll probably like you just fine.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Well, don't talk politics, don't let them know your on the dark side, and they'll probably like you just fine.
          The key is when you don't join in on the HateTrumpFest. You can't just be neutral, you have to hate Trump.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Which community, exactly? And on what basis does one determine that any given community's moral standards are necessarily correct and worthy of conformity?
            Whichever “community” to which one belongs, e.g. in Salem the community thought it essential to kill ‘witches’ and their “basis was Holy Scripture. The same applied to pre-abolitionist slavery in the US or the denial of emancipation for all citizens, e.g. women. Today, in the West, we tend to recognize the basis to be recognition of 'the inherent dignity of all members of the human family and universal human rights.

            So, on what basis do YOU determine that a “community's moral standards are necessarily correct and worthy of conformity”?
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
              No Lilpix, it is you who want others, including, according to you, "less enlightened Christians," to submit to your christian views such as "same sex partners can't get married." What others believe, and how others choose to live their lives is, frankly, none of your business. And no, the government isn't forcing anything down your throat as far as church activity goes, other than forbidding political activity. You can do that on your own!
              Jimmy, I take more of a libertarian view here and it is their life. I don’t find it necessary to track them down and use the government to force them to bend a knee or else. People are welcome to express whatever view of marriage they choose, even if you don’t like it.
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                The key is when you don't join in on the HateTrumpFest. You can't just be neutral, you have to hate Trump.
                Well, that can be a problem. You shouldn't be neutral in the face of an obvious common enemy else the good guys suspect you to be feigning neutrality. It isn't about Hating Trump, it's about loving your country which Trump is doing his best to exploit and destroy.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                  Jimmy, I take more of a libertarian view here and it is their life. I don’t find it necessary to track them down and use the government to force them to bend a knee or else. People are welcome to express whatever view of marriage they choose, even if you don’t like it.
                  Good for you, Lilpix. So what are you complaining about?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    Good for you, Lilpix. So what are you complaining about?
                    People wanting to use the government to track people down that disagree with them and use government force to make them bend a knee or else.
                    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
                      It's the “right” of every person to live according to their own values and beliefs provided it is within the confines of accepted community values.
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Which community, exactly? And on what basis does one determine that any given community's moral standards are necessarily correct and worthy of conformity?
                      Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
                      Whichever “community” to which one belongs...
                      So if you happened to find yourself in a community that believes it is morally good to subjugate and rape women, you would alter your own beliefs accordingly so that your moral standards are "within the confines of accepted community values"?
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Well, that can be a problem. You shouldn't be neutral in the face of an obvious common enemy else the good guys suspect you to be feigning neutrality.
                        When I'm helping a homeless person, and concerned about their spiritual welfare as well, the last thing I want to do is argue politics.

                        It isn't about Hating Trump, it's about loving your country which Trump is doing his best to exploit and destroy.
                        I think Trump is an arrogant ass, but I think accusing him of wanting to destroy our country is simply going way too far.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                          People wanting to use the government to track people down that disagree with them and use government force to make them bend a knee or else.
                          So, you're keeping those tin foil hats close by then, eh? da guberment is a comin!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            When I'm helping a homeless person, and concerned about their spiritual welfare as well, the last thing I want to do is argue politics.
                            I have a lot of homeless friends, and they are pretty much clueless when it comes to politics. I wouldn't call them either conservative or liberal. They're just trying to survive from day to day.


                            I think Trump is an arrogant ass, but I think accusing him of wanting to destroy our country is simply going way too far.
                            Well, all i can say is that you must not be paying very close attention then.
                            Last edited by JimL; 10-18-2019, 10:44 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              So if you happened to find yourself in a community that believes it is morally good to subjugate and rape women,
                              The Western world DID believe it was morally good to "subjugate women” and still does in some instances…the Duggars spring to mind. Scripture is cited as the justification for this

                              Just as scripture was cited re "rape", until relatively recently, that it only applied to a male who has sexual intercourse with a female not his wife”. After all, how can you “rape” your wife when she is your own property. You can do what you like with your own property can you not?

                              you would alter your own beliefs accordingly so that your moral standards are "within the confines of accepted community values"?
                              Christians did.

                              I would do, as members of communities have always done, seek to change moral values that come to be seen as repugnant, such as above. Where do you think the Universal Declaration of Human Rights comes from? It came from the social evolution of community values over time.

                              You failed to answer on what basis YOU would determine whether a “community's moral standards are necessarily correct and worthy of conformity”? Scripture doesn’t seem to be much use. See above re the subjugation and rape of women.
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                I have a lot of homeless friends, and they are pretty much clueless when it comes to politics. I wouldn't call them either conservative or liberal. They're just trying to survive from day to day.
                                And part of our mission is to determine which ones actually want to be part of productive society, and which ones seem OK with living on government assistance. That's part of the diagnostics, and we really encourage those who are looking for a hand up, as they say, not a hand out.

                                Well, all i can say is that you must not be paying very close attention then.
                                Or, perhaps you're looking with a super-critical eye.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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