Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    Because if they, i.e. a gods thoughts, are eternal, then there can be no process called "thinking". Thinking is a process that takes place in time and the resultant thoughts/reasons/actions are therefore temporal in nature as well. If you want to argue that a god thinks and reacts to temporal events then said gods nature would need be defined as temporal as well. Also, with respect to knowledge, if a god knows your name, your dogs name etc... and has known those things as well as all things eternally, then not only is he not thinking or reacting to temporal events, that eternal knowledge would simply mirror temporal events.
    I don't believe any of us understand this Jim, William Craig makes some good points.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfn8CJarrSE&t=328s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbirUdSnZLU
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seer View Post
      I don't believe any of us understand this Jim, William Craig makes some good points.
      Are you sure you understand William Craig's points, then?
      "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Charles View Post
        Are you sure you understand William Craig's points, then?
        More or less, he believes that God is eternal but not timeless after He creates the universe, then he is temporal.

        https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writ...-and-creation/
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post
          Tass, that has nothing to do with the fact that Christians still think that adultery is a sin.
          In that case you should NOT show support for “sinful adultery” by voting an adulterer into high office. No more than you believe that Christian cake-shops should show support for “sinful” gay marriage by making them wedding cakes.

          And who were Christians supposed to vote for Hillary? Don't be daft...
          Of course. If they were seriously concerned about the sin of adultery.

          What are you taking about? I can show the salve owners the texts on manstealing - whether they repent is on them.
          Just as the slave owners for centuries could show you the texts that justified slavery. So, who’s got it right? You or them?

          Right and when one group of organic algorithms slaughters another group of organic algorithms - no biggy.
          Nevertheless, the victims of mass slaughtering instinctively believe themselves to be significant individuals. Are they wrong?

          Again Tass, you brought up turning the other cheek, and that has nothing to do with what the State does or doesn't do. And an eye for an eye, in context, is about not taking personal action. And a life for a life is just.
          So, even though Jesus said NOT to demand an “eye for an eye” you as a Christian still support capital punishment, i.e. a “life for a life”. What a hypocrite.

          And what is the big deal - we are merely assemblages of organic algorithms...
          It’s a “big deal” for us even though we know that we are merely intelligent organic algorithms.

          What we DON’T "know" is your escapist fantasy that we are creations of a fictional deity made for eternal life. That’s just wishful thinking.
          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by seer View Post
            I don't believe any of us understand this Jim, William Craig makes some good points.
            Why would take WL Craig seriously? He’s just philosopher/apologist with a starting position of the Talbot School of Theology Doctrinal Statement where he's on the faculty:

            “The Bible, consisting of all the books of the Old and New Testaments, is the Word of God, a supernaturally given revelation from God Himself, concerning Himself, His being, nature, character, will and purposes; and concerning man, his nature, need and duty and destiny. The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are without error or misstatement in their moral and spiritual teaching and record of historical facts. They are without error or defect of any kind….” https://www.biola.edu/about/theological-positions

            So, we know in advance where his arguments will end up.
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
              In that case you should NOT show support for “sinful adultery” by voting an adulterer into high office. No more than you believe that Christian cake-shops should show support for “sinful” gay marriage by making them wedding cakes.
              So I should vote for a rabid abortion supporter who would have appointed rabid leftist judges? You really are daft Tass...


              Of course. If they were seriously concerned about the sin of adultery.
              And we are not equally concerned, or more so, about the killing of millions of unborn humans?


              Just as the slave owners for centuries could show you the texts that justified slavery. So, who’s got it right? You or them?
              Actually no, they could not justify slavery based on kidnapping from Scripture.

              Nevertheless, the victims of mass slaughtering instinctively believe themselves to be significant individuals. Are they wrong?
              I guess we all have our myths...


              So, even though Jesus said NOT to demand an “eye for an eye” you as a Christian still support capital punishment, i.e. a “life for a life”. What a hypocrite.
              Of course I do (in certain cases) since Christ is not giving rules for the State. I support the State meting out justice (not me) and as we discussed, a life for a life is just.

              It’s a “big deal” for us even though we know that we are merely intelligent organic algorithms.

              What we DON’T "know" is your escapist fantasy that we are creations of a fictional deity made for eternal life. That’s just wishful thinking.
              You mean like your fantasy that you actually have significance?
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                I don't believe any of us understand this Jim, William Craig makes some good points.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfn8CJarrSE&t=328s

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbirUdSnZLU
                When you don't understand a thing, it's best to apply logic and go with that.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  When you don't understand a thing, it's best to apply logic and go with that.
                  No Jim, logic is only as valid as the facts that we have and on this issue we don't have nearly all the facts.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    No Jim, logic is only as valid as the facts that we have and on this issue we don't have nearly all the facts.
                    That there are other facts is only a belief of yours, go with the facts you know.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      That there are other facts is only a belief of yours, go with the facts you know.
                      Well no Jim we are speaking of an eternal being, how He thinks, how He interacts with the temporal, etc... We don't know these things.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Because if they, i.e. a gods thoughts, are eternal, then there can be no process called "thinking". Thinking is a process that takes place in time and the resultant thoughts/reasons/actions are therefore temporal in nature as well. If you want to argue that a god thinks and reacts to temporal events then said gods nature would need be defined as temporal as well. Also, with respect to knowledge, if a god knows your name, your dogs name etc... and has known those things as well as all things eternally, then not only is he not thinking or reacting to temporal events, that eternal knowledge would simply mirror temporal events.
                        You would be correct to say that God doesn't think. God's knowledge is timeless, and therefore true at all times. God is also completely impassive, and changeless and simple in substance. So in any moment of our time we relate to God in the same way, and by the same relation, analogolous to the rim of a circle that is always equidistant.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seer View Post
                          More or less, he believes that God is eternal but not timeless after He creates the universe, then he is temporal.

                          https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writ...-and-creation/
                          I respect Craig's defense of the Kalam cosmological argument, however I part way with him on his theology on God.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            This is what you think nowadays.
                            Wait, you actually think that's a gotcha? You do realize that even when you have an objective standard its possible for there to be both growth of understanding, and even realizations of errors. The very fact that this is possible is something that can only happen when you have such a standard.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                              Wait, you actually think that's a gotcha? You do realize that even when you have an objective standard its possible for there to be both growth of understanding, and even realizations of errors.
                              Not when an ultimate, unchanging “objective standard” doesn’t exist.

                              The very fact that this is possible is something that can only happen when you have such a standard.
                              No. It’s something that evolves socially over time.
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                So I should vote for a rabid abortion supporter who would have appointed rabid leftist judges?
                                She was NOT a “rabid abortion supporter” at all. Her long-held view has been that abortion should be "safe, legal, and rare." She would NOT have appointed "rabid leftist judges" but judges that share her own moderate views...and those of the majority of the population.

                                And we are not equally concerned, or more so, about the killing of millions of unborn humans?
                                So, in your mind the "sin" of divorce and remarriage (which Jesus specifically designated as “adultery”) matters less than the relatively recent notion of abortion as murder. This has NOT been the Judeo/Christian position throughout most of its history.

                                Actually no, they could not justify slavery based on kidnapping from Scripture.
                                They nevertheless justified slavery from scripture for many centuries. Scripture has always been made to conform to the social values of the day, this is an example of it.

                                I guess we all have our myths...
                                All humans believe themselves to be significant, that's why we bother to stay alive. We ALL resist being harmed or killed.

                                Of course I do (in certain cases) since Christ is not giving rules for the State. I support the State meting out justice (not me) and as we discussed, a life for a life is just.
                                But you vote for capital punishment. How is that not you demanding an “eye for an eye”, a “life for a life” against the specific command of Jesus?

                                You mean like your fantasy that you actually have significance?
                                Most people believe that they and their loved ones have significance, this is why they protect and sustain them. OTOH your escapist fantasy that we are made for an imaginary eternal life results in your own personal salvation taking precedence.
                                Last edited by Tassman; 11-20-2019, 11:30 PM.
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                108 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                307 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                110 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                196 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                357 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X