O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

[Tassman]

Only the pro-abortion crowd can conflate a convicted murderer with the most innocent of all human life.

A convicted murderer is nevertheless a sentient human being as opposed to an innate fetus. The latter cannot be either “innocent” or “guilty”, it lacks consciousness.

[seer]

How much do Christians “really value human life” when they execute sentient human beings because they are criminals, kill other humans in warfare and allow millions of humans to starve to death because they have no access to food and to help them would be “evil socialism”.

Executing a murder or child rapist for instance protects the larger society. And war can do the same - killing ISIS fighters and Nazis is a morally good thing. And my Church feeds hundreds of people a month. I have linked those pictures in the past. And yes socialism can become evil.

How much did the “godly” value the lives of the slaves they owned by the thousands, or when they murdered helpless old ladies as witches because the crops failed, or treated women as property with no rights of their own and regarded blacks as an inferior species as per the Jim Crow laws and LGBT humans as flawed or sinful people.

Yes homosexuality is sinful, blacks are not inferior, according to scripture we are all created in the image of God, slavery was just a part of the ancient world and regulated in the Old Testament (and it was Christians who led the abolition movement in the West). Jim Crow laws have nothing to do with Biblical teachings, neither does racism.

None of these human beings have more “inherent worth than a common house fly” for you. But it makes you feel righteous to witter on about the termination of innate fetuses in first term abortions as “killing millions of our own offspring in the womb”. How pathetic are you?

And you are an idiot. Even if I was hypocritical that doesn't change the holocaust of abortion. In your world it is wrong to enslave the man, but it would be perfectly fine to have killed the same man as a baby in the womb. Morally twisted...

[Cow Poke]

A convicted murderer is nevertheless a sentient human being as opposed to an innate fetus.

How bout you invite the convicted murderer to live with you, and I'll support the 'innate fetus', otherwise known as an unborn baby.

The latter cannot be either “innocent” or “guilty”, it lacks consciousness.

The unborn child has committed no crime. Zero. Nada. But, please, do continue defending convicted murderers.

[rogue06]

How bout you invite the convicted murderer to live with you, and I'll support the 'innate fetus', otherwise known as an unborn baby.



The unborn child has committed no crime. Zero. Nada. But, please, do continue defending convicted murderers.

In Tass' mixed up muddled up world a convicted murderer deserves more protection than an unborn baby

[Cow Poke]

In Tass' mixed up muddled up world a convicted murderer deserves more protection than an unborn baby

And he's proud of that.

[Teallaura]

I'm pro-life and anti-death penalty. I think both the murderer and the unborn deserve equal protection under the law.

At present, the difference is the murderer gets due process and the baby does not.

[Cow Poke]

I'm pro-life and anti-death penalty. I think both the murderer and the unborn deserve equal protection under the law.

At present, the difference is the murderer gets due process and the baby does not.

I'm pro-life and pretty much agnostic toward the death penalty, except in extreme cases.

In both abortion and death penalty, there are no opportunities for reconsideration.

[KingsGambit]

I'm pro-life and pretty much agnostic toward the death penalty, except in extreme cases.

In both abortion and death penalty, there are no opportunities for reconsideration.

Me too on all counts.

[Teallaura]

I'm pro-life and pretty much agnostic toward the death penalty, except in extreme cases.

In both abortion and death penalty, there are no opportunities for reconsideration.

Yep, which is why killing people to solve your problem is stupid, whether individual or collective.

[demi-conservative]

Yep, which is why killing people to solve your problem is stupid, whether individual or collective.

Describing God as 'stupid' should give the Christian pause.

[Tassman]

Executing a murder or child rapist for instance protects the larger society.

There is no demonstrable deterrent value in capital punishment, it’s pure vindictiveness and long abandoned by most civilized countries.

And war can do the same - killing ISIS fighters and Nazis is a morally good thing.

Indeed. All ideological extremism needs to be contained…including those for whom a theocracy is the goal, preferably before it gains a foothold.

And my Church feeds hundreds of people a month. I have linked those pictures in the past. And yes socialism can become evil.

Better to work towards greater economic equality than rescue the victims of unfettered capitalism. “Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God”. Hebrews.

Yes homosexuality is sinful,

Some Christians think so the majority today do not. Both sides use the bible to justify their position.

blacks are not inferior, according to scripture we are all created in the image of God, slavery was just a part of the ancient world and regulated in the Old Testament (and it was Christians who led the abolition movement in the West). Jim Crow laws have nothing to do with Biblical teachings, neither does racism.

And yet the history of the Southern Baptist Conference is intertwined with the history of American slavery and the commitment to white supremacy which supported it. Then as now, those holding what are perceived today as errant views regarding racial equality defended them by quoting Scripture. In short, the bible says whatever the social mores of the day want it to say. This has long been the history of Christianity. E.g. 80 years ago, an English king was forced to renounce his throne over the adulterous “sin” of divorce and remarriage. Whereas, today the US religious right supports a twice divorced, three times married man as president.

And you are an idiot. Even if I was hypocritical that doesn't change the holocaust of abortion. In your world it is wrong to enslave the man, but it would be perfectly fine to have killed the same man as a baby in the womb. Morally twisted...

It would be “immoral to kill the same man in the womb” except that the coordinated brain activity required for consciousness does not occur until 24-25 weeks of pregnancy. The man you are executing is a fully conscious sentient being, the first term fetus is not. There's a considerable difference.

[seer]

There is no demonstrable deterrent value in capital punishment, it’s pure vindictiveness and long abandoned by most civilized countries.

There you go again! What is civilized in your relative world? And some would call the death penalty justice. And there is a clear deterrent - that person will NEVER murder or rape again. Whether in society or in the prison population.

Indeed. All ideological extremism needs to be contained…including those for whom a theocracy is the goal, preferably before it gains a foothold.

We agree, sometimes killing our fellow man is a moral good, even if we find value in their lives as humans.

Better to work towards greater economic equality than rescue the victims of unfettered capitalism. “Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God”. Hebrews.

Right, as a Christian, me and my Church help the poor daily - so what is your point? And I'm not sure where in the West unfettered capitalism exists. And Socialism tends towards more and more central control, at the expense of individual liberty.

Some Christians think so the majority today do not. Both sides use the bible to justify their position.

Then let them show me their Scripture that backs their case up. I can show you mine.

And yet the history of the Southern Baptist Conference is intertwined with the history of American slavery and the commitment to white supremacy which supported it. Then as now, those holding what are perceived today as errant views regarding racial equality defended them by quoting Scripture. In short, the bible says whatever the social mores of the day want it to say. This has long been the history of Christianity. E.g. 80 years ago, an English king was forced to renounce his throne over the adulterous “sin” of divorce and remarriage. Whereas, today the US religious right supports a twice divorced, three times married man as president.

Do you deny that the abolition movement was spearheaded by Christians? BTW I'm a Congregationalists, you know like in John Brown and Harriet Beecher Stowe.

It would be “immoral to kill the same man in the womb” except that the coordinated brain activity required for consciousness does not occur until 24-25 weeks of pregnancy. The man you are executing is a fully conscious sentient being, the first term fetus is not. There's a considerable difference.

So what? Does awareness suddenly impute value to the human that it didn't have before? Why? According to whom?

[Cow Poke]

There is no demonstrable deterrent value in capital punishment, it’s pure vindictiveness and long abandoned by most civilized countries.

One of the reasons I'm not really pro-death penalty (though that is falsely accused of me simply because I am pro-life) is that the way it is administered in our country often results in somebody being on "death row" for years or decades or pretty much the end of their lives awaiting, or appealing, the death sentence. The "punishment" is so far removed from the crime that, I tend to agree, there is not much demonstrable deterrent.

If it were to be administered more quickly, there would be an attachment to the crime that might serve as a deterrent to others. HOWEVER, having worked with a number of death row inmates at "The Walls" unit in Huntsville, Texas, I have seen a number of cases where the conviction was subsequently tossed because of new advances in DNA technology. Had the execution taken place "quickly", the condemned would have been unjustly punished permanently.

And yet the history of the Southern Baptist Conference...

Still demonstrating your profound ignorance of the SBC, I see -- it's the Southern Baptist CONVENTION.

(Go ahead and add some dead preacher quotes)

[JimL]

Describing God as 'stupid' should give the Christian pause.

But the christian concept of god is amoral, so it doesn't matter.

[seer]

But the christian concept of god is amoral, so it doesn't matter.

And what do you know about morality Jim?