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O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    EGGzackly - like most large denominations, you'll have a pretty fair contingent that identify with that denomination because they grew up in it, or married into it, or needed somewhere to "belong" while running for political office...

    Just belonging to a denomination in no way makes you a Christian.

    (but you know that )
    We all know that. However, it does in no way demonstrate that the 30 % of the Southern Baptist who are pro choice do not go to church every sunday or are not Christians. It can be convenient to imagine they don't - but convenience is not always the truth.
    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      My point exactly. The bible will say whatever people want it to say depending on the cultural mores of the day
      No it doesn't Tass, yes some issues are ambiguous but not all or even most. Adultery, fornication, homosexuality, murder, stealing, rape, unbelief, etc... are sinful, and still sin according to Scripture even if all Christians decided they weren't to get along with the culture.



      Of course, he is, he’s dead. You’re confusing “deter” with “prevented”. Statistics show that the death penalty is NOT a deterrent…as previously linked.
      Nope, I quoted the definition deter - to prevent or discourage. The death penalty prevents the murderer or rapist from ever harming anyone again. It works 100% of the time.

      There have been many others. The Roman Empire once controlled the known world, and the British Empire held sway over a quarter of the world’s population until the 20th Century. The US has dominated since then but is now in decline, its place to be taken by China. So, what is your point again?
      The point is free markets create wealth and prosperity, socialism, if followed to it logical end, destroy wealth and prosperity. The reason why we are still the greatest nation in history is that we haven't embraced socialism to a great degree. And no country in history had the ability to extend it power anywhere in the world as we do today.


      Not according to the ‘Happiness' and 'Human Development' Indices which clearly demonstrate that the secular nations head the list.
      You are confusing two issues. I linked a number of studies in the past, which I'm sure you remember. So the religious person in, let's say Norway, would be happier than the non-religious person in Norway. It is about individuals, not nations where any number of factors enter in. So your index is meaningless, and if personal happiness is the goal we should all embrace our narcissistic tendencies as the study I linked showed


      Again, I will leave that to the appropriate medical judgement. Suffice to say that the clear intention of Roe v Wade is that third trimester abortions are permitted only in the most extraordinary circumstances.
      Which means abortion for any reason at anytime. Stop giving lip service to the brain wave argument - it means nothing to you...
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Charles View Post
        We all know that. However, it does in no way demonstrate that the 30 % of the Southern Baptist who are pro choice do not go to church every sunday or are not Christians.
        Charles, you're coming up with stuff you want to believe and pretending it's true. There is SO MUCH wrong with your twisted logic here that it's not even funny. You got NOTHING but pulling imaginary numbers out of your butt.

        Why don't you spend some of your NannyRuption time actually doing some research?


        Fast Facts About the SBC


        weekly worship.jpg

        Now, if there are 14,813,234 Southern Baptists, and the weekly worship attendance is 5,297,788, that indicates that... I'll tell you what -- let's see if YOU can do that math!

        It can be convenient to imagine they don't - but convenience is not always the truth.
        It may be convenient for you, because it's a really birdbrained dumb argument in the first place, and it's no surprise that you couldn't even bother yourself to look anything up.

        FACT: Just because somebody is a Southern Baptist doesn't mean they attend Church, OR are even born again.
        FACT: EVEN IF THEY ARE, two of the core fundamentals of SBC life are "the priesthood of the believer" and "the autonomy of the local church" - meaning they are allowed to believe what they want!

        Sheesh, you can be so dense!
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Charles View Post
          From what we actually know IGNORANTLY ASSUME about the Southern Baptists it is quite obvious that ...
          that you're dumber than a bag of hammers.

          (fixed it for ya)
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Charles View Post
            Talking about errors....
            And making quite a few yourself...

            You know that 30 percent of the Southern Baptists are pro choice but somehow ignore it this statement.
            Actually, I dealt with it with citations and facts, instead of NannyPoo.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Roy View Post
              Emphasising:"Deter" does not mean "prevent", as your own definition indicates - you're focussing on part of the definition and pretending the rest doesn't exist.

              You called Tassman a liar because he took you to be using the actual definition, not your subset of it.

              You owe him a retraction and an apology.
              I actually agree that using deter to mean prevent is misleading here - although, being fair, he did explain his use sufficiently that Tass didn't have grounds for misrepresenting Seer's position. That said, to prevent is a perfectly valid definition and usage for deter. It's equally valid with to discourage, was perfectly evident in context and simply clarifying earlier would have eliminated the problem.

              The irritating part is that Seer is arguing a very weak point and y'all are losing it to him because of a dictionary. Hint: capital punishment is NEVER a cost effective preventative in a Christian, humane, civil or (not and*) a sane MODERN** society.





              *None of these are mutually exclusive but they shouldn't be treated as mutually inclusive, either.

              **Necessary adjective - emphasis so no one misses it.
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Quill Sword

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              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Technically, Seer is correct in that the actual definition is " to turn aside, discourage, or prevent from acting ".

                Putting somebody to death certainly "prevents them from acting" to kill again.

                However, it's common knowledge that the "deter" is intended to mean "deter others", and that's where it's really hard to make a case.
                But a lot of pro-death penalty folks use it exactly that way - all the danged time.


                Seer could have been A LOT clearer - but it was evident in context. Tass could have asked for clarification - but he was a bit busy being righteously indignant.



                Moving right along...
                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                Quill Sword

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                • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                  Hint: capital punishment is NEVER a cost effective preventative in a Christian, humane, civil or (not and*) a sane MODERN** society.
                  Perhaps, but it is just...
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Or being in a garage makes you a car, or a cat giving birth to kittens in an oven makes them muffins....
                    Only the once - and Blueberry, Bran, Strawberry and Chocolate Chip are doing just fine, thankyouverymuch!!!


                    Next time, keep the oven closed like I told you!
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Perhaps, but it is just...
                      Not if you're wrong, it's not.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                        I prefer to argue that regardless of its overall deterrence effect, it is 100% in preventing recidivism.
                        Er, no - that's not how math works. Literally, won't work since there are recorded cases, albeit few, of murderers released from death row repeating their crime. Counting only the executed means counting the unjustly executed as well - for whom their is no issue of recidivism.
                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Quill Sword

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          Not if you're wrong, it's not.
                          There are clear cut cases Tea, like this one in my state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshi...vasion_murders

                          Of course you could just as well put an innocent person in prison for life.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Of course you could just as well put an innocent person in prison for life.
                            ...during which he can continue to appeal, new evidence may be found to justify a new trial, etc... And "life" isn't necessarily "life without any possibility of parole".
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              ...during which he can continue to appeal, new evidence may be found to justify a new trial, etc... And "life" isn't necessarily "life without any possibility of parole".
                              That happens very seldom, and don't think rapists and murderers should ever get out...
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                No it doesn't Tass, yes some issues are ambiguous but not all or even most. Adultery, fornication, homosexuality, murder, stealing, rape, unbelief, etc... are sinful, and still sin according to Scripture even if all Christians decided they weren't to get along with the culture.
                                Not “ambiguous” texts. Texts have been used definitively according to the cultural mores of the day. E.g. Romans 13 was employed by anti-abolitionists to justify and legitimize the keeping of slaves. Similarly, the denial of female emancipation and homosexuality. And “adultery, fornication, homosexuality” may still be sinful in the eyes of many but, this was not sufficient to prevent the Religious Right from supporting an adulterous thrice-married womanizer as president…unthinkable a generation ago.

                                Nope, I quoted the definition deter - to prevent or discourage. The death penalty prevents the murderer or rapist from ever harming anyone again. It works 100% of the time.
                                The death penalty might “prevent” further crimes from a particular perpetrator but “Scientists agree, by an overwhelming majority, that the death penalty has no deterrent effect. They felt the same way over ten years ago, and nothing has changed since then. States without the death penalty continue to have significantly lower murder rates than those that retain capital punishment". (Previously linked)

                                The point is free markets create wealth and prosperity, socialism, if followed to it logical end, destroy wealth and prosperity. The reason why we are still the greatest nation in history is that we haven't embraced socialism to a great degree.
                                This has not been true of the great powers in the past and its certainly not true of China which is overtaking the USA as the next great world power.

                                And no country in history had the ability to extend it power anywhere in the world as we do today.
                                Not so. The British Empire controlled a quarter of the world and lasted overall for c.400 years, the Mongol Empire existed during the 13th and 14th centuries and became the largest contiguous land empire ever. And the mighty Roman Empire ruled virtually the whole known world. The USA, incidentally, has been one of the shortest-lived world powers…less than a century.

                                You are confusing two issues. I linked a number of studies in the past, which I'm sure you remember. So the religious person in, let's say Norway, would be happier than the non-religious person in Norway. It is about individuals, not nations where any number of factors enter in.
                                And yet the USA where, unlike secular Norway, the majority of people are religious ranks low on the ‘Happiness' and 'Human Development' Indices.

                                Which means abortion for any reason at anytime.
                                No. R v W means what it says re the third trimester. The state may regulate or prohibit abortion to promote its interest in the potential life of the fetus, except where abortion is necessary to preserve the woman's life or health. In short, only in exceptional circumstances. And in practice this is the case. Over 90% of abortions occur within the first trimester.
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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