Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    That’s not what I said. I said that social values among Christians re divorce and remarriage (adultery according to Jesus) have changed significantly. NB the Christian Right's support of multiply divorced adulterer Donald Trump, a far cry from a generation ago when Edward VIII was forced off the throne over the issue of divorce.
    Tass which Christians believe that adultery is a moral good? I certainly don't.


    But slave-owning Christians DID justify slavery by scripture. For centuries.
    And I used Scripture to show why they were wrong. But really - so what - in your world it is all relative anyway...


    It is a fact of nature that we DO value our own lives and those of our loved ones regardless of the disregard of genocidal external forces.
    So human significance is merely a matter of opinion. You like steak, I like lobster.


    We do not live our lives according to the logical dictates of a philosophical theory, whether we are theist OR atheist. Rather we have evolved to survive as cooperative social animals.
    I'm not speaking of how you live your lives but the logical outcome of atheism - existential nihilism.



    Sure, when it comes to sheep. NOT people. Although you as a Christian are compelled to “turn the other cheek” in all instances.
    Why is a sheep for a sheep just and not a human life for a human life? The concept holds logically...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
      seer, again it's either one or the other, of time, or not of time, and gods thought process is either eternal, i.e. timeless, in which case you can't call it a process at all, or it is temporal which concludes to an infinite regress.
      This is my bottom line Jim, I don't think you or I or any one knows enough about time, eternity or God's though process to come to any firm conclusions.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seer View Post
        This is my bottom line Jim, I don't think you or I or any one knows enough about time, eternity or God's though process to come to any firm conclusions.
        Well, then you'll have to concede that your arguments against an infinite regress are moot since if gods thoughts, or acts for that matter, are temporal, they too would result in an infinite regress.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Well, then you'll have to concede that your arguments against an infinite regress are moot since if gods thoughts, or acts for that matter, are temporal, they too would result in an infinite regress.
          Jim, 'we don't know' does not logically lead to the concession of a hypothetical, especially one that rests on the assumption of the unknown as a known.
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

          Quill Sword

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
            Jim, 'we don't know' does not logically lead to the concession of a hypothetical, especially one that rests on the assumption of the unknown as a known.
            We have two alternatives, Tea, temporal or eternal. That is why believers argue that god is eternal and the believed creation is temporal. The temporal process leads to an infinite regress, it's opposite, the eternal has no process, it doesn't change. If it does change, then it's not eternal, and would also result in an infinite regress.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
              We have two alternatives, Tea, temporal or eternal. That is why believers argue that god is eternal and the believed creation is temporal. The temporal process leads to an infinite regress, it's opposite, the eternal has no process, it doesn't change. If it does change, then it's not eternal, and would also result in an infinite regress.
              That's a much too simplistic view of eternity, Jim. Remember Steady State was a theory predicated on the universe being eternal, but not unchanging.
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Quill Sword

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                That's a much too simplistic view of eternity, Jim. Remember Steady State was a theory predicated on the universe being eternal, but not unchanging.
                But that doesn't change a thing, Tea. An eternal entity that changes would still lead to an infinite regress.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  But that doesn't change a thing, Tea. An eternal entity that changes would still lead to an infinite regress.
                  I wasn't paying attention to most of your argument with Seer - an infinite regress on what?
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                    I wasn't paying attention to most of your argument with Seer - an infinite regress on what?
                    On anything that changes whether as in physical actions or mental decisions.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      On anything that changes whether as in physical actions or mental decisions.
                      I don't follow - how does that lead to infinite regression? Is this related to omniscience?
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        I don't follow - how does that lead to infinite regression? Is this related to omniscience?
                        The believers argument is that the universe had to be created, had to have a beginning, because otherwise, if it is eternal, its cause and effect nature would go on ad-infinitum, an infinite regression, which is an impossibility.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          The believers argument is that the universe had to be created, had to have a beginning, because otherwise, if it is eternal, its cause and effect nature would go on ad-infinitum, an infinite regression, which is an impossibility.
                          Oh - no, I've never seen that variant. Looks more like it's related to the idea of a cyclic Big Bang.
                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                          My Personal Blog

                          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                          Quill Sword

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Tass which Christians believe that adultery is a moral good? I certainly don't.
                            That’s not what I said. What I said was that social values among Christians re divorce and remarriage have changed significantly over time. In short, your so-called God-given unchangeable moral values on this and many other things demonstrably change.

                            And I used Scripture to show why they were wrong.
                            But the Christians who owned slaves for centuries disagree. They justified their slave ownership by scripture. See above re God’s so-called unchanging morality.

                            But really - so what - in your world it is all relative anyway...
                            It is all relative in your world too, witness the changing moral attitudes re slavery over the millennia.

                            So human significance is merely a matter of opinion. You like steak, I like lobster.
                            How silly you are. Human significance is NOT “merely a matter of opinion”. It has evolved as an essential part of our genetic make-up.

                            I'm not speaking of how you live your lives but the logical outcome of atheism - existential nihilism.
                            The “logical” and biological outcome of ALL life is death and decay. But what matters to us is that we have evolved to survive as cooperative social animals. Our lives are important to us.

                            Why is a sheep for a sheep just and not a human life for a human life? The concept holds logically...
                            Except that you as a Christian are compelled to “turn the other cheek” in all instances.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              I wasn't paying attention to most of your argument with Seer - an infinite regress on what?
                              An infinite regression of past physical events that led to this present universe.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                                Oh - no, I've never seen that variant. Looks more like it's related to the idea of a cyclic Big Bang.
                                Yes it could be a cyclic series of big bangs and crunches or a infinite series of events within a multiverse that give rise to smaller bubble universes within the larger multiverse.
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by CivilDiscourse, Today, 09:58 AM
                                4 responses
                                14 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Stoic
                                by Stoic
                                 
                                Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                194 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                419 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                114 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                198 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Working...
                                X