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Thread: The obvious has been officially confirmed ...

  1. #81
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Yes it is, and quite clearly. Two explicit examples are provided -- treason and bribery -- illustrating the nature and seriousness of the crime that would compel impeachment. Anything short of that does not warrant impeachment, per the Constitution.
    Like I said, as far as the President is concerned, "abuse of power" is a crime, and abuse of power circumscribes many things that are not actual crimes and it is left to Congress to both investigate and adjudicate. Read the Federalist Papers and Alexander Hamilton. But again, along with the abuse of power, there is also much evidence of many criminal acts by Trump and his administration, criminal acts which you chose to ignore and snip out of my previous post.

  2. #82
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    Like I said, as far as the President is concerned, "abuse of power" is a crime...
    "Abuse of power" is a category of crimes and not a crime in and of itself. You still need to name an actual crime at least as serious as bribery and treason before impeachment is warranted, per the Constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    ...there is also much evidence of many criminal acts by Trump and his administration...
    Then why haven't Democrats released the evidence and voted to impeach already, if the facts are really that cut and dried? Why the endless "investigations", and why are they now floating the unconstitutional notion that a president doesn't actually need to be guilty of a crime to be impeached?

    It's time to take off the tinfoil hat and put on your thinking cap, because the answers are pretty obvious.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  3. #83
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    "Abuse of power" is a category of crimes and not a crime in and of itself....
    You beat me to it.... "Abuse of power" is an accusation, which must then be supported by fact. If it's actually a crime, that has to be proven, not simply alleged.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  4. #84
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    You beat me to it.... "Abuse of power" is an accusation, which must then be supported by fact. If it's actually a crime, that has to be proven, not simply alleged.
    I don't think anyone is proposing that just accusing the president is sufficient. There has to be actual abuse of power that can be shown objectively.

    But that isn't an issue in the case of Mr. Trump. It's just a matter of determining if the abuse itself so egregious it warrants impeachment.


    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  5. Amen JimL amen'd this post.
  6. #85
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I don't think anyone is proposing that just accusing the president is sufficient.
    Ummmm..... he is routinely called a criminal and worse on this very site.

    There has to be actual abuse of power that can be shown objectively.
    Absolutely.

    But that isn't an issue in the case of Mr. Trump. It's just a matter of determining if the abuse itself so egregious it warrants impeachment.


    Jim
    And, again, if the Democrat leadership hadn't been so spiteful and hate-filled since BEFORE Trump was even POTUS, it would be easier to see this as an "objective" prosecution.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  7. Amen Mountain Man, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  8. #86
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Ummmm..... he is routinely called a criminal and worse on this very site.
    That won't get him impeached, and most of the time the accusations are related to some criminal or apparently criminal action on his part.


    Absolutely.



    And, again, if the Democrat leadership hadn't been so spiteful and hate-filled since BEFORE Trump was even POTUS, it would be easier to see this as an "objective" prosecution.
    That may well be true (though I'm not sure I agree with the specific adjectives you are using to describe their negative reaction to Trump).

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  9. #87
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    The fact that the Democrats won't even hold a vote to make their impeachment inquiry official (which they must do if they want their demand letters to carry any legal weight) suggests that even they aren't confident in their case against the President.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  10. #88
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    That won't get him impeached, and most of the time the accusations are related to some criminal or apparently criminal action on his part.
    Yeah, I was accused of "abuse of power" when I was a police officer, and this was way before bodycams. That would be an accusation related to "some criminal or apparently criminal action" on my part.

    Fortunately, the judge had a hard time believing the testimony of the 265 pound bad guy who attacked me with a cue stick was credible, in that I "threw him over the hood of my police car" just because I didn't like him.

    (It was kinda funny - I weight about 148 lbs back then, and this was a BIG guy who had come running full force at me to beat me with the cue stick from the bar) The judge kept looking at the guy, then at me, sizing us both up, then asking the complainant...."so, what you're telling me is that Officer Cow Poke beat you up?" The guy couldn't even look at the judge, who then uttered the words "case dismissed".

    That may well be true (though I'm not sure I agree with the specific adjectives you are using to describe their negative reaction to Trump).

    Jim
    And I don't agree with some of the specific adjectives frequently used here (not necessarily by you) to describe Trump with his negative reaction to the spiteful and hate-filled Democrats trying everything but the kitchen sink to invalidate his presidency even before he was sworn in.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  11. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  12. #89
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    The fact that the Democrats won't even hold a vote to make their impeachment inquiry official (which they must do if they want their demand letters to carry any legal weight) suggests that even they aren't confident in their case against the President.
    I don't think it quite means what you are saying MM. The lack of confidence is due more to the fact the republicans have relinquished nearly all moral responsibility as it relates to their role in the separations of powers WRT this president. Which means the house must have a case that is more than merely technically correct. It must be sufficiently strong that a significant number of republicans in the senate will have no choice but to recognize it's legitimacy. And in this day with Trump at the helm and the republicans mostly just his minions, that is a tall order.

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  13. #90
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I don't think it quite means what you are saying MM. The lack of confidence is due more to the fact the republicans have relinquished nearly all moral responsibility as it relates to their role in the separations of powers WRT this president. Which means the house must have a case that is more than merely technically correct. It must be sufficiently strong that a significant number of republicans in the senate will have no choice but to recognize it's legitimacy. And in this day with Trump at the helm and the republicans mostly just his minions, that is a tall order.

    Jim
    What does it matter what the Republicans do? The Democrats have the advantage of numbers in the House and could vote to make the inquiry official today if they wanted, and then the Trump administration would be compelled to respond to all subpoenas. But then you guys insist that the evidence against Trump is already significant and damning, so why even bother with that? Just release the evidence in full, vote to impeach, and then sit back and watch Senate Republicans squirm knowing that Pelosi and her gang just backed them into a corner.

    But that's not happening, and it will never happen. Do you know why? It's very simple: they don't have a case against the President. That's why they're operating behind closed doors and depending on carefully constructed "leaks" to their media allies to sell their false narrative. It's the Russian Collusion Delusion all over again, where the ironclad evidence is always just around the corner but never actually delivered.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  14. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.

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