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Thread: Hillary Unhinged! Tulsi Gabbard & Jill Stein Russian assets...

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    She didn't mention a name, but... come on... who still in the Dem primary could she have possibly been referring to? Gabbard is the only one that could run independent (even though I believe she's stated otherwise) since a lot of her policies (especially her foreign policy) don't at all fit into the typical progressive or establishment Dem mold. She's also the only one in the line-up that's been slandered as a Putin/Assad puppet continuously ( by the left media strangely enough) for her unconventional stance on Syria and military interventionism.

    Who do you think she was referring to?
    The accusation really surfaced immediately after she torpedoed Kamala Harris' campaign.

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    Being that much of the military anti-interventionism and disdain for establishment rino hawks is expressed on the right (in fact, I've rarely ever see a leftist currently espousing this stance, even on the progressive side, with the exception of a few like Glenn Greenwald) and is what Trump campaigned on, it's debatable which party it would better serve the most if Gabbard ran as an independent. HIGHLY debatable in fact.

    It's also funny to me beyond measure that the warmongering left has become such a fervent supporter of aggression and military bravado in their foreign policy (much like the neocons of the Bush era that they pretended to criticize) that getting a republican candidate in office instead of a democrat would better serve our international enemies is now the common belief among that crowd.
    I think for many of them their sudden new-found hawkish positions are a direct result of their being the opposite of what Trump is doing. IOW, if Trump was talking about staying in Syria indefinitely they would be declaring that we need to get out.

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    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    I think for many of them their sudden new-found hawkish positions are a direct result of their being the opposite of what Trump is doing. IOW, if Trump was talking about staying in Syria indefinitely they would be declaring that we need to get out.
    That's a very firm possibility. In fact, I've been mulling over the claim that the left is (or once was) anti-war. Were they ever really anti-war, or was it just a partisan thing? Even during the Vietnam war, when the hippies had the marches, were they really anti-war or was it just a reaction against Nixon? I'm beginning to think the "anti-war left" is just a partisan charade. However, I do think there are deep establishment Dems that are truly war hawks that do benefit from military incursions. For example, the reason why the liberal media darling msnbc was so harsh against liberal voices that protested the Iraq war. But that's a whole other rabbithole to go down.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    I think for many of them their sudden new-found hawkish positions are a direct result of their being the opposite of what Trump is doing. IOW, if Trump was talking about staying in Syria indefinitely they would be declaring that we need to get out.
    There always was and remains an anti-militarism wing on the left, just as on the right. To the argument about Trump, there's a small amount of truth there but it's very much not true on the whole. The progressive left, for example, didn't want Obama to enter into the Syrian civil war and still opposed Trump's (ineffectual) military strike against a Syrian airport early in his term. The progressive left has not, to my knowledge, advocated increased military action in any theater of conflict during Trump's term. And while Trump's increased use of drone attacks and increase of civilian casualties thanks to loosened rules of engagement have largely gone under the radar, the progressive criticism hasn't changed much, in degree or pitch, from Obama.

    So "warmongering" doesn't work. What we're dealing with right now is the abandonment of an ally with absolutely no strategic or political value, alongside the decision to send >1000 troops to Saudi Arabia for also no strategic or political value. Ideally, folks on the left and right want the military used sparingly and with some sense of responsibility.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" ó Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    So "warmongering" doesn't work. What we're dealing with right now is the abandonment of an ally with absolutely no strategic or political value
    The only ally the US has there is Turkey, and there's great value in supporting your ally.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  6. #16
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    That's a very firm possibility. In fact, I've been mulling over the claim that the left is (or once was) anti-war. Were they ever really anti-war, or was it just a partisan thing? Even during the Vietnam war, when the hippies had the marches, were they really anti-war or was it just a reaction against Nixon? I'm beginning to think the "anti-war left" is just a partisan charade. However, I do think there are deep establishment Dems that are truly war hawks that do benefit from military incursions. For example, the reason why the liberal media darling msnbc was so harsh against liberal voices that protested the Iraq war. But that's a whole other rabbithole to go down.
    There was a large anti-War movement during LBJ's time one which likely played a significant role in his deciding not to seek re-election.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

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    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    She didn't mention a name, but... come on... who still in the Dem primary could she have possibly been referring to? Gabbard is the only one that could run independent (even though I believe she's stated otherwise) since a lot of her policies (especially her foreign policy) don't at all fit into the typical progressive or establishment Dem mold. She's also the only one in the line-up that's been slandered as a Putin/Assad puppet continuously ( by the left media strangely enough) for her unconventional stance on Syria and military interventionism.

    Who do you think she was referring to?
    You guys know Tulsi herself took the comments as directed at her, and responded aggressively on Twitter, right?
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

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    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    You guys know Tulsi herself took the comments as directed at her, and responded aggressively on Twitter, right?
    And Hillary's spokesman all but confirmed it was Tulsi when directly asked.

    That, and Tulsi Gabbard has been accused of being a Russian stooge for months.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    And Hillary's spokesman all but confirmed it was Tulsi when directly asked.

    That, and Tulsi Gabbard has been accused of being a Russian stooge for months.
    I believe the response to whether Hillary was referring to Tulsi Gabbard was, "if he nesting doll fits."

    Gabbard in turn said that Hillary is the "embodiment of corruption, and personification of the rot" which infest the Democratic Party and challenged her to get into the campaign rather than "cowardly hid[ing]" behind proxies.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    There always was and remains an anti-militarism wing on the left, just as on the right. To the argument about Trump, there's a small amount of truth there but it's very much not true on the whole. The progressive left, for example, didn't want Obama to enter into the Syrian civil war and still opposed Trump's (ineffectual) military strike against a Syrian airport early in his term. The progressive left has not, to my knowledge, advocated increased military action in any theater of conflict during Trump's term. And while Trump's increased use of drone attacks and increase of civilian casualties thanks to loosened rules of engagement have largely gone under the radar, the progressive criticism hasn't changed much, in degree or pitch, from Obama.

    So "warmongering" doesn't work. What we're dealing with right now is the abandonment of an ally with absolutely no strategic or political value, alongside the decision to send >1000 troops to Saudi Arabia for also no strategic or political value. Ideally, folks on the left and right want the military used sparingly and with some sense of responsibility.

    --Sam
    That's indeed the standard NPC talking point about a very complex situation. "But, but... the kurds are our allies." Heck, I don't even understand the situation fully and I'm about as up to speed on this geopolitical stuff as anyone only because I find it interesting more than I'm guessing the average person does. I doubt most liberals spouting off "the kurds are our allies" could even find Syria on a map if pressed to do so. I highly doubt, and I mean HIGHLY doubt most liberal NPCs understand the complexity of the situation beyond it being a convenient way to espouse more of the same anti-Trump rhetoric hysteria, so I definitely believe rogue has a point.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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